Need Help Advancing my Bard

[Herzog]

the point is, I'm a bit hesitant to introduce the extra rules.

Both the 'Stances and Manouvers' from Bo9S and the 'skilltricks' from CAdv are on my 'not if I can help it' list.

But, I'll look into it.

Also, thanks for the tip on the Skald. I'll see if I can find it, and whether it fits my ideas.

About the attacking: I know that, and I have been using a sling (going for bow now that they are allowed....) enhanced with Sonic Weapon after the initial bardsong, but that meant either first casting, and bardsong in the next round, or bardsong, casting in the next round and re-start bardsong if the fight takes more than 5 rounds.
(NB: Starting bardsong as a swift action sounds cool too! Do I have to take Warblade for that?)

About taking credit: I know I can help the party a lot with my bardic abilities (AND spells!)
the point is that after starting them, the round-by-round actions of my character kind of suck. So, as a 'does my character contribute as a whole' I'm content. However, I would like to DO something after those initial bufs, and strength-penaltied damage from sling or bow just doesn't cut it....

Last but not least: I took some feats in the beginning to help me get out of tight spots. However, situations where I need Improved Feint and Combat Expertise just don't pop up, and I feel like I could be doing more with them. (hence the sneak attack ideas).

Herzog

 

[Darklone]

Turning a str 7 bard into a warblade? Oh oh ...

I'd rather go crusader for some extra healing.

 

[Kat']

Last but not least: I took some feats in the beginning to help me get out of tight spots. However, situations where I need Improved Feint and Combat Expertise just don't pop up, and I feel like I could be doing more with them. (hence the sneak attack ideas).

Meh. Given your stats and hit points, you're better off not going into melee. I'd suggest you work at what you're good, and that's singing and playing the source of knowledge. It's not just about combat, you know.

 

[Herzog]

I'm currently thinking of taking a last lvl of Bard to get the required ranks in skills as well as +2 on inspire courage and getting third lvl spells, then from lvl 9 take lvls in the Streetfighter PrC (Complete Adventurer), then maybe after that Arcane Trickster, Lyric Taumathurge, or whatever.

However, I'm still looking for some way to:

-get/advance sneak attack damage
-advance Bardic Music
-use bardic music to help my own spellcasting and/or attacks
-use Int bonus on attack, damage, AC. (since it's my highest ability.....)

Any suggestions on the above?

 

[Jadeite]

-get/advance sneak attack damage

By taking Swordsage as your 9th level you could take Assassin's Stance, getting 2d6 of sneak damage.

-use bardic music to help my own spellcasting and/or attacks

Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn allows you to expend Bardic Musics to add your Charisma Modifier to your Weapon Damage for Perform (Dance) rounds. (It has Perform (Dance 5) as a prerequisite, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Dragonfire Inspiration from Dragon Magic replaces the Morale Bonus from Inspire Courage with Bonus Dice of Fire Damage (other Energy types if you have a Draconic Heritage of a Dragon with another energy type). The best Way to qualify for this is to take one level of Sorcerer and to take Draconic Heritage (emerald dragon) as feat as this gets you Sonic Damage. You might use the Stalward Sorcerer Variant from Complete Mage, gaining to extra hit points and Proficiency and Weapon Focus with a martial melee weapon of your choice. If you could reincarnate as a creature with the Dragonblood Subtype it would be even better because this would allow you take Draconic Heritage as a Bonus Feat instead of a familiar.

-use Int bonus on attack, damage, AC. (since it's my highest ability.....)

Level 3 Swashbucklers (Complete Warrior) get Int on damage rolls.
Duelist gets you Int on AC, capped by your Class Level.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

How did you end up playing a bard with those stats anyway? They're terrible for a bard.

If I were your DM, I would be seriously looking at house rule territory.

Like, say, letting you spend a feat to have INT, rather than CHA, be the governing attribute for your spells. Then you could make Lyric Thaumaturge really work for you. As is, you're stuck with crappy DCs with an enchantment-heavy spell list. You're really only going to be good at buffing/support spells.

There are a bunch of these for the bard (my bard/lyric thaumaturge has haste and alter fortune, there are many others). The problem is, I just don't think it's fun to play a character who can only buff the other PCs.

Ken

 

[Nifft]

I didn't notice this before, but your feats really suck. Why do you not have Weapon Finesse?

Turning a str 7 bard into a warblade? Oh oh ...

Half of the Diamond Mind school is perfect for this dude.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Herzog]

The stats are terrible, period.
The idea was to have lots of skillpoints, and being good at social interaction. The group already had a rogue, and no arcane spellcaster, so I went for bard.

Social interaction proved to be hacked to pieces by the barbarian(s) in the group, and I don't just mean the class, it's a playstyle as well....

Skillpoints where nice, but the longer I am playing the more I started to look for something more combat-oriented to add to the game.

Bard spells suck, but to make things worse I had selected some bard spells that proved to be completely useless for the group I play in. (most of the higher level spells that COULD be usefull only work well outside combat : fascinate is useless in combat situations)

I am planning to take haste when I get my lvl 8 bard spellcasting (either directly or through PrC) Note that I don't mind having only Buff/support spells, as long as I have 'something to do' during the rest of the combat.... That, and being able to do something with the feats I selected when building the character.

About the SwordSage:
again, not to enthausiastic about adding stances and maneuvers to the game. (I'd have to convince the rest of the group/DM's it's a good idea, only to probably leave it at 1 lvl of swordsage before taking levels in AT!)
Also, SwordSage gets a (explicit) first level stance at lvl 1. The explanation of level requirements for stances and maneuvers would allow the first level of swordsage to get access to (1/2 * 8 + 1=5->3rd lvl) stances, but I would, again, need to convince the rest of the group.
As a further complication, Assasin's Stance requires you already have a Shadow Hand maneuver, which gets you into the question in which order you get these class abilities, and if a maneuver you have selected at the current level counts as fulfulling the prerequisite. minor discussion, but still.

Draconic Feats don't really fit the setting, so I'm not even going to try and get that accepted.

I'm aware of swashbuckler. thought about it, but discarded it for now.
Duelist requires NO ARMOR, making you even more vulnerable in combat, as well as Dodge, Mobility and Weapon Finesse, which I don't have...

........................

I just realised something irritating:
as long as I'm not sure what will happen to the magic in this setting, I keep looking at spellcasting progression PrC's.
Every time I think about non-spellcasting progression, I look at how I could improve myself the best, going sneak attack, AC, attack and damage improvements based on Int, etc.
Only to circle back to Arcane Trickster, and from there to other spellcasting progression classes.

I have also been looking at classes that greatly improve Bardic Music (adding more and better abilities), only to realise most of those effects are to much like high level magic, and I wouldn't want them in our campaign myself.

Maybe Haffrung Helleyes is right, and I need to be looking at houserule territory.

Like, taking a PrC that focusses on Bardic Music, (Seeker of the Song), only allow other bardic music effects to replace the ones of the class. ( taken from other classes that give Bardic Music abilites or simmilar, limited by ranks in perform)

Oh well, back to my books.

And I will need to get a definite answer from the group what we'll be doing with magic....


Edit: Oh, and Weapon Finesse was not allowed until now. (just as any Riding related Feats, the Decipher script skill,the classes Paladin and Wizard, and other stuff deemed 'not historically available yet')

 

[Darklone]

Half of the Diamond Mind school is perfect for this dude.

Cheers, -- N

If with perfect you mean "he's not totally useless with Diamond Mind" I agree

Bard spells don't suck, just get the Spell Compendium and get a decent DC by increasing your CHA.

If you want more sneak attack, get those weapon enchantments from the MIC.

 

[Herzog]

Ok, I'll look into the SwordSage some more, and will look at the Diamond Mind section.

I have the Spell Compendium, but I didn't when I created the character.
Although the spells in the SC are better, the fact remains that the Bard class remains the 'support character'. While there's nothing wrong with that, I am trying to turn my character in something more.

And about the Feats: If I could, I'd switch out several of them without blinking. Since I'm stuck with them (no retraining allowed) I would like to make the most of them.