Haffrung Helleyes
First Post
Ah, I had gotten Lyric Spell and Captivating Melody confused. I've edited my earlier post.
Ken
Ken
Need Help Advancing my Bard
- Thread starter Herzog
- Start date
Herzog
Adventurer
Highjacking my own thread.... again....
Ok, I need some more input, and rather than starting yet another thread about the same character, here's the deal:
I have convinced all but one of the group to allow retraining, at least for the feats.
The one I haven't convinced yet is temporarily absent, so I'm assuming it won't be a problem for him either.
So, given my seven levels of Bard, what are your suggestions for:
1. Replacing current feats.
2. Filling the 'gap' until level 11 (when I can take Lyric Thaumaturge)
For now, I'm thinking to stick with bard up to and including lvl 10.
NB: No skill tricks, stances and/or maneuvers allowed. No Wizard allowed, no metamagic allowed, no paladin allowed. no riding-related feats allowed.
thanks in advance!
Herzog
Ok, I need some more input, and rather than starting yet another thread about the same character, here's the deal:
I have convinced all but one of the group to allow retraining, at least for the feats.
The one I haven't convinced yet is temporarily absent, so I'm assuming it won't be a problem for him either.
So, given my seven levels of Bard, what are your suggestions for:
1. Replacing current feats.
2. Filling the 'gap' until level 11 (when I can take Lyric Thaumaturge)
For now, I'm thinking to stick with bard up to and including lvl 10.
NB: No skill tricks, stances and/or maneuvers allowed. No Wizard allowed, no metamagic allowed, no paladin allowed. no riding-related feats allowed.
thanks in advance!
Herzog
Haffrung Helleyes
First Post
Why would you need to be lvl 11 to take Lyric Thaumaturge levels? Here are the entry requirements:
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Perform (any) 9 ranks,
Spellcraft 6 ranks.
Feat: Melodic Casting
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.
Special: Bardic music 5/day.
You can enter this class at your next level, if allowed to retrain your feats. I would do so.
For my feats, I would take Spell Focus: Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Melodic Casting, and whatever 4th feat you want.
Ken
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Perform (any) 9 ranks,
Spellcraft 6 ranks.
Feat: Melodic Casting
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.
Special: Bardic music 5/day.
You can enter this class at your next level, if allowed to retrain your feats. I would do so.
For my feats, I would take Spell Focus: Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Melodic Casting, and whatever 4th feat you want.
Ken
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Herzog
Adventurer
You are so right.
I had the skillrank requirements confused with several of the other Bardic PrC's which require 13 ranks (hence entry at 11th lvl)
I've been looking into the following feats myself (and the lvl at which I could/would take them):
Feats:
1: Able Learner(RD): all skill ranks cost 1 skill point to purchase.
req: Human or doppleganger, only at first level.
1: Melodic Casting(CM) (requirement for Lyric Thaumaturge): cast spells while performing, use perform for concentration checks.
req: bardic music, perform 4 ranks, spellcraft 4 ranks
3: Versatile Spellcaster(RotD): use two spellslots of the same level to cast one spell of one level higher
req: Ability to spontaneously cast spells.
6: Lyric Spell(CAdv).: use bardic music uses to cast spells you know. (1+spell level)
req: bardic music, perform 9 ranks, ability to spontaneously cast 2nd level spells
others I might take at some point:
Metamagic Song (RoS): spend bardic music instead of raising spell level when using metamagic feat.
req: 2 MetaMagic feats.(which makes it inaccessible until I take MM Feats....)
Song of the Heart(ECS): increase bonus from inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness or inspire heroics by 1. also increase DC for fascinate, suggestion or mass suggestion by 1.
req: bardic music, perform 6 ranks, inspire competence ability.
Chord of Distraction (CS): use three bardic music uses to get one opponent within 30' flat-footed for one ally until next round or until opponent attacked.
req: bardic music, perform 9 ranks. (IMO, not worth it, but I thought I'd list it anyway)
Snowflake Wardance(Fr): use bardic music use to gain charisma bonus to attack rolls with slashing melee weapon. become fatigued for 10 minutes afterwards.
req: bardic music ability, perform(dance) 6 ranks.
I'm not too sure about Able Learner. For instance, would it (retroactively) allow me to spend (the) extra skillpoints I had to spend on cc skills?
If I'd need to take some other Feat at lvl 1, the one's listed above have requirements that can't be met at lvl 1.
Spell focus may be a good idea..... I'll keep it in mind.
I had the skillrank requirements confused with several of the other Bardic PrC's which require 13 ranks (hence entry at 11th lvl)
I've been looking into the following feats myself (and the lvl at which I could/would take them):
Feats:
1: Able Learner(RD): all skill ranks cost 1 skill point to purchase.
req: Human or doppleganger, only at first level.
1: Melodic Casting(CM) (requirement for Lyric Thaumaturge): cast spells while performing, use perform for concentration checks.
req: bardic music, perform 4 ranks, spellcraft 4 ranks
3: Versatile Spellcaster(RotD): use two spellslots of the same level to cast one spell of one level higher
req: Ability to spontaneously cast spells.
6: Lyric Spell(CAdv).: use bardic music uses to cast spells you know. (1+spell level)
req: bardic music, perform 9 ranks, ability to spontaneously cast 2nd level spells
others I might take at some point:
Metamagic Song (RoS): spend bardic music instead of raising spell level when using metamagic feat.
req: 2 MetaMagic feats.(which makes it inaccessible until I take MM Feats....)
Song of the Heart(ECS): increase bonus from inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness or inspire heroics by 1. also increase DC for fascinate, suggestion or mass suggestion by 1.
req: bardic music, perform 6 ranks, inspire competence ability.
Chord of Distraction (CS): use three bardic music uses to get one opponent within 30' flat-footed for one ally until next round or until opponent attacked.
req: bardic music, perform 9 ranks. (IMO, not worth it, but I thought I'd list it anyway)
Snowflake Wardance(Fr): use bardic music use to gain charisma bonus to attack rolls with slashing melee weapon. become fatigued for 10 minutes afterwards.
req: bardic music ability, perform(dance) 6 ranks.
I'm not too sure about Able Learner. For instance, would it (retroactively) allow me to spend (the) extra skillpoints I had to spend on cc skills?
If I'd need to take some other Feat at lvl 1, the one's listed above have requirements that can't be met at lvl 1.
Spell focus may be a good idea..... I'll keep it in mind.
Darklone
Registered User
Bard archer as mentioned above:
Could someone provide a link to the Inspire Courage optimisation thread?
The short things are: Song of the White Raven and one or more warblade levels to start Inspire Courage as Swift action. Song of the Heart from the Eberron campaign setting for +1. There's a level 1 spell in the Complete Series that adds another +1. And IIRC an item in the MIC for another +1.
Later take the Devoted Performer feat with some paladin levels. Paladin spellcasting might be interesting too with the Practised Spellcaster feat, take the Battle Blessing feat (Complete Champion), buy some pearls of power and cast Divine Favor as swift actions.
Max Charisma (all stat increases there and buy a +6 item ASAP). Take Power Attack and Divine Might. The Bow of Songs from the MIC allows you to add your Cha modifier to attack and damage rolls with that bow for one round at the cost of one bardic music use per day.
You need all the archer feats like Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Precise shot... and now we are pretty feat starved.
Let's assume human as race.
Level 1 warblade: good hitpoints, Song of the White Raven and Point Blank Shot feats (if someone with the books might check this...)
level 2 and 3: bard and paladin and take Devoted Performer.
Take three or four more paladin levels.
feats at level 6, 9 and 12: Rapid Shot, Power Attack and Divine Might.
That way at level 14 you'll shoot probably 4 arrows with Rapid Shot, plus one arrow with Haste... with Inspire Courage you'll have about +4 or +5 to hit and to damage, your Cha mod to hit and to damage with the Bow of Songs and additionally your Cha mod to damage with Divine Might.
Could someone provide a link to the Inspire Courage optimisation thread?
The short things are: Song of the White Raven and one or more warblade levels to start Inspire Courage as Swift action. Song of the Heart from the Eberron campaign setting for +1. There's a level 1 spell in the Complete Series that adds another +1. And IIRC an item in the MIC for another +1.
Later take the Devoted Performer feat with some paladin levels. Paladin spellcasting might be interesting too with the Practised Spellcaster feat, take the Battle Blessing feat (Complete Champion), buy some pearls of power and cast Divine Favor as swift actions.
Max Charisma (all stat increases there and buy a +6 item ASAP). Take Power Attack and Divine Might. The Bow of Songs from the MIC allows you to add your Cha modifier to attack and damage rolls with that bow for one round at the cost of one bardic music use per day.
You need all the archer feats like Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Precise shot... and now we are pretty feat starved.
Let's assume human as race.
Level 1 warblade: good hitpoints, Song of the White Raven and Point Blank Shot feats (if someone with the books might check this...)
level 2 and 3: bard and paladin and take Devoted Performer.
Take three or four more paladin levels.
feats at level 6, 9 and 12: Rapid Shot, Power Attack and Divine Might.
That way at level 14 you'll shoot probably 4 arrows with Rapid Shot, plus one arrow with Haste... with Inspire Courage you'll have about +4 or +5 to hit and to damage, your Cha mod to hit and to damage with the Bow of Songs and additionally your Cha mod to damage with Divine Might.
Haffrung Helleyes
First Post
Personally, the only feats I would take on that list are Melodic Casting, and Song of the Heart.. I'll detail why for each of them:
1) Able learner: This is a good feat for people with lots of skill points and a short skill list. You already have the best skill list in the game. You have access to way more great class skills than you can max.
2) Versatile Spellcaster: You don't have many spells per day, and your low-level spells are already good (Tasha's Hideous Laughter, for example). I don't think you'd get much use out of this, compared, to say, a Sorcerer.
3) Lyric Spell: This is a good feat, but it presumes that you don't need your bardic music for other things. And believe me, you do. Because Lyric Thaumaturge gives you Captivating Melody, the best feat a Bard can have.
4) Metamagic song: You don't have enough feats to make good use of this. And enchantments don't benefit as much from metamagic as evocations.
5) Song of the Heart: You should definitely get this if you can. Anything that boosts your Inspire Courage is worthwhile
6) Chord of Distraction: This feat sucks. 3 uses of bardic music? Let the rogue figure out his own way to sneak attack. Maybe he could flank?
7) Snowflake Wardance: This would be good if your STR was 12 or 14, not 7! You need to think of yourself as a noncombatant.
The reason you want the spell focus feats, is that they mitigate your crappy CHA. With both of them and Captivating Melody, your 14 CHA tranlates into a DC17 1st level spell, instead of DC13. The best offensive bard magic comes from the Enchantment school.
Ker
1) Able learner: This is a good feat for people with lots of skill points and a short skill list. You already have the best skill list in the game. You have access to way more great class skills than you can max.
2) Versatile Spellcaster: You don't have many spells per day, and your low-level spells are already good (Tasha's Hideous Laughter, for example). I don't think you'd get much use out of this, compared, to say, a Sorcerer.
3) Lyric Spell: This is a good feat, but it presumes that you don't need your bardic music for other things. And believe me, you do. Because Lyric Thaumaturge gives you Captivating Melody, the best feat a Bard can have.
4) Metamagic song: You don't have enough feats to make good use of this. And enchantments don't benefit as much from metamagic as evocations.
5) Song of the Heart: You should definitely get this if you can. Anything that boosts your Inspire Courage is worthwhile
6) Chord of Distraction: This feat sucks. 3 uses of bardic music? Let the rogue figure out his own way to sneak attack. Maybe he could flank?
7) Snowflake Wardance: This would be good if your STR was 12 or 14, not 7! You need to think of yourself as a noncombatant.
The reason you want the spell focus feats, is that they mitigate your crappy CHA. With both of them and Captivating Melody, your 14 CHA tranlates into a DC17 1st level spell, instead of DC13. The best offensive bard magic comes from the Enchantment school.
Ker
Herzog said:
Last edited:
Herzog
Adventurer
Highjacking my own thread, once again
The dust has settled, a decision has been made.
We're going with a scenario that will re-enable normal spellcasting, but with 'social' consequences. (NB: spellcasters should keep their powers as much secret as possible to avoid detection. Someone mentioned this resembles a 'world of darkness' approach, for those that recognize the reference)
This means I will be taking the Lyric Thaumaturge prestige class as soon as possible.
Using the retraining options in the PHII has been postponed for now, although moving around skillpoints has been allowed to a certain degree to compensate for the gradual introduction of skills. (NB: when entering a new era, your level in skillpoints may be re-assigned)
This means I will be taking Melodic Casting at lvl 9, and enter the LT PrC at lvl 10.
Now, what I would like from the people on this board:
Given that my character sucks at melee combat even more than the standard bard, and that spellcasting should be focused on 'invisible' magic. (think boosting allies and penalizing opponents) what kind of spells do you recommend for my Bard? Spells that improve ranged attacks (both attack and damage) and improve AC for my bard are the ones I'm looking for most, since boosting my allies is nice but I would like to be boosting myself a bit more.
thanx in advance
Herzog
The dust has settled, a decision has been made.
We're going with a scenario that will re-enable normal spellcasting, but with 'social' consequences. (NB: spellcasters should keep their powers as much secret as possible to avoid detection. Someone mentioned this resembles a 'world of darkness' approach, for those that recognize the reference)
This means I will be taking the Lyric Thaumaturge prestige class as soon as possible.
Using the retraining options in the PHII has been postponed for now, although moving around skillpoints has been allowed to a certain degree to compensate for the gradual introduction of skills. (NB: when entering a new era, your level in skillpoints may be re-assigned)
This means I will be taking Melodic Casting at lvl 9, and enter the LT PrC at lvl 10.
Now, what I would like from the people on this board:
Given that my character sucks at melee combat even more than the standard bard, and that spellcasting should be focused on 'invisible' magic. (think boosting allies and penalizing opponents) what kind of spells do you recommend for my Bard? Spells that improve ranged attacks (both attack and damage) and improve AC for my bard are the ones I'm looking for most, since boosting my allies is nice but I would like to be boosting myself a bit more.
thanx in advance
Herzog
VanRichten
First Post
Maybe it is just me but I would retool this guy as a Beguiler. Seems it would fit better in the group.
