Need Help Advancing my Bard

[Haffrung Helleyes]

OK, I've thought about this some more.

you are hopeless as a melee combatant. You should give up on that, and write off your improved feint and combat expertise feats as losses; you'll never get any use out of them.

Your CHA 13 is rescuable. At 8th level, put a point in CHA, this gets you to 14. At 9th level, take Melodic spellcasting; I think it is a Lyric Thaumaturge Prereq. It will let you continue to cast spells while singing.

Get a cloak of CHA, preferably +4. That gets you to CHA 18, which is respectable.

Now, take nothing but Lyric Thaumaturge levels. You'll get Captivating Melody as a bonus feat; this lets you add 2 to the DC of an enchantment spell with a use of bardic music. This, combined with a higher CHA, will make your enchantment spells competitive. I'm playing a bard with this setup right now. With an 18 CHA and Lyric spell a lvl 3 enchantment spell has a DC of 19. There are lots of monsters at all levels of play that will have problems making a DC19 will save.

The lyric thaumaturge levels give you both extra spells known and extra spells per day. Choose them wisely.

Ken

 

[Herzog]

Ken,

What you are suggesting is exactly what I came up with myself, should I be able to continue to use magic as in a standard setting.
The cloak of charisma probably won't happen, but since I can cast Eagle's splendor when I really need it i think I can make do.

My main problem with that build is that I will be introducing more spellcasting to the campaign, and if the campaign is heading towards a low or no magic setting, that is NOT the kind of character I should be building.

But, thanks all for thinking along with me!

Herzog

 

[Nifft]

Ok, I'll look into the SwordSage some more, and will look at the Diamond Mind section.

For your dude, I really recommend against Swordsage.

SS is a Wisdom-focused class.

Warblade, on the other hand, will let you add your Int bonus to stuff like Reflex saves and damage when flanking (which is similar to Sneak Attack).

Cheers, -- N

 

[roguerouge]

Have you considered reincarnation?

No, I'm being serious here. Your barbarian player is nerfing your chief skill, social interactions, and neutering some of your bardic music. You're headed towards a no-magic future, which takes away your spells eventually. Your melee stats stink and your feats absolutely prevent you from qualifying for Dex-based Prestige classes.

If you're committed to playing this character, start taking levels of Ranger once you get access to 3rd level bard spells. You'll be a modestly effective archer/skill monkey, I guess.

 

[roguerouge]

And start persuading your DM to use the PHbII rules for retraining. If you go towards the archer build, shifting Combat Expertise and Improved Feint to the archery feats will be important.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

His WIS is 8. He'll never be able to cast Ranger spells. I think he'd be better off taking Swashbuckler levels (Weapon Finesse for free negates his STR penalty to hit, INT to damage negates his STR penalty to damage) than trying to be a ranger.

I think there's some merit to staying with magic. Consider this: Enchantment is not one of the currently heavily-nerfed schools. And, Enchantment spells generally aren't affected by caster level much.

If magic becomes rare, then by extension you will be one of the few people in the world who can do magic. Enchantments can be very, very powerful in a world where no one expects them, and no one can counter them.

Ken

 

[Herzog]

Nifft,

Had some time to check out the swordsage, and I agree with you.
IF I'm going to take levels in a Bo9S class, it should award high Int, not high Wis.

roguerouge, if the verdict is going to be 'no magic' (which I doubt will happen without one of the Druid players leaving the group) I'm going to try to bring in retraining, and maybe even reincarnation (including changed physical stats).

haffrung Helleyes, also in case of 'no magic', swashbuckler levels are still a good option. I'm just postponing it until I'm sure I'm turning away from magic (and bardic music).
Also: there are currently three kinds of scenario's involving 'no magic':
1. Nobody but the party and certain select adversaries are going to have magic.
2. Nobody but the party and certain select adversaries can use magic. Additionally, Effective Caster Level is greatly reduced. (this mostly influences duration and damage dice)
3. Nobody, including the party, can use magic.
In case of scenario 1 I think I'm going for LT, and try to find spells that have high impact but low visibility. (think 'mass charm' instead of 'fireball'....)
In case of scenario 2 I might go into Seeker of the Song or a simmilar PrC that focusses on bardic music.
In case of scenario 3 I think I will switch to rogue, swashbuckler, streetfighter, Warblade, something like that. I will also try to convince everyone to adopt the retraining options in PHBII.
Or maybe the enforcing of scenario 3 will break up the group. (knowing the player of one of the Druids, not unlikely).

Again, thank you all for your comments.
At the very least, it has helped me point out the weaknesses of my current character, and introduced me to the Bo9S (which I had ignored up till now) as well as showing me that I need to force a decision about the heading of the campaign out of the group before I can plan the future of my character...

Herzog

 

[szilard]

Why Warblade?

The best hit points in the game.

The best BAB in the game.

Powerful melee attacks that don't depend on your strength (realize that you don't need to take level one maneuvers at your level).

Bardic music progression (with a feat).

Maneuvers (White Raven) that boost your inspirational abilities.

Class features that take advantage of your Intelligence bonus in melee.


What's not to like?

-Stuart

 

[Herzog]

Highjacking my own thread....

Ok, first: szilard;
I'm really getting into considering the warblade, but I don't think I can convince the group to include Bo9S at this point.
So, for all the good advice on that class, I'll keep it in mind for another campaign and/or character.

To be able to continue this discussion, I'll be assuming the magic restriction will be lifted at some point, which means I'll be taking levels in LT.

Given that my options will mostly come from Spellcasting, and that I'll have lots of Bardic Music uses per day without getting additional bardic music effects, here are my questions:

1. Are there any Feats out there that use bardic music to improve 'stuff' (AC, caster level, hit,damage, whatever)
2. Are there any Spells out there (Bard, Sorcerer/Wizard) that allow you to do sneak attack damage (when a oponent is denied Dex bonus to AC).
3. Are there any Spells or Feats out there that let me use my Int bonus for attack, damage, AC, etc. (I'm mostly interested in bows/slings, since melee is not really this character's thing, and crossbows are not allowed yet)

Any advice is welcome.

Herzog

ps: added 'race' to character description. It's 'Human'....

 

[Jadeite]

Nearly every feat and spell that enhances the Bard's combat abilities is based on the Bard's Charisma Bonus. This goes for Snowflake Wardance (Charisma to Damage) as well Spells like Ruin Delver's Fortune (Charisma on Saves) or Sirine's Grace (Charisma on AC).
The Feat Captivating Melody from Complete Mage allows you to spend Bardic Musics to increase the DC of Illusions and Enchantments.