Need help with a campaign issue

[Greenfield]

As some of you know, our game group (currently D&D 3.5) runs with a "Round Robin" style of DMing. It's currently my turn.

And, as some of you may have noticed, we've had a problem in that we (as DMs) have been too easy on the group, and we (the players) have gotten kind of soft.

In the current story arc, the group was given a clue to a major artifact, the Chariot of Helios. It was actually mentioned in the campaign into document.

Here's my problem: The players were told that it lay at the end of the "Glass Road", a long stretch of the Sahara that had been fused by the close passing of the Chariot when it crashed ages ago.

About halfway through the quest, while hiring a guide, the de-facto party leader made a mistake. He started talking about "The Sea of Glass", referring to the large areas of sand that got crusted over with glass as the Chariot passed. These were also referenced by the sameBard that told them about the Glass Road and the Chariot.

Ever since then, the party has been working hard to get to the wrong place.

We're about to go on hiatus for a few months, as the person hosting the game (me) becomes unavailable. Tomorrow is supposed to be the grand finale of this story arc, and a major development in the campaign.

I could easily say that they really are in the right place and just blow it off. But as I've run this arc I've become increasingly aware of just how soft and forgiving of error the DMs have become.

Alternately, I could tell them about their mistake and let them correct it, as in, "After a hard search, taking weeks, you find the Glass Road." Not much different from blowing it off.

I don't have time for them to do it right though. One game session.

Suggestions?

 

[sabrinathecat]

Recap at the beginning of the session, including the bard song. IF they still want to go to the wrong place, let them. The weeks go by, give them a (short/easy)fight or two getting there to find nothing. Then go over the bard song again.
They should pick it up the first time in the recap. Really. If not, certainly the second time.

Of course, I'm basing this on my game sessions, which can last 6-8 hours. If you don't have that kind of time, there are other possibilities.
"Divine dream message" to the cleric/paladin/any pious character.
Mage makes an intel check.
Funny old man with 5 yellow budgies in a wicker cage talks to them, and says something like. "Oh. You're looking for that. Shouldn't you be going to _____." For fun, make that funny old man NOT be Bahamut in disguise.
A trail of breadcrumbs crosses their path leading them in the right direction.
Another party of adventurers meets them on the road, headed for the correct location. Now it is a race. Have the players find the other party killed gruesomely by an appropriate trap or really tough monster. Their equipment broken beyond immediate repair (need to spend coin at the armor smith or mage guild). Best of all, that equipment can be whatever you were going to let them have in treasure anyway.

Hopefully one of those ideas will help with your problem. Or inspire a solution.
Always have a back-up or 2. Or 3.

 

[Greenfield]

There is/was an enemy party headed for the same place. The PCs captured one of them.

And executed him out of hand, without asking a single question.

The next week the players decided to use Revenance to temporarily raise him so they could question him. They never asked his name. They never asked what he was doing here. They never asked how the enemy found them in the middle of Sahara. They more or less chatted philosophy, and let him try to bribe them into changing sides. The only thing they really got from him was the name of the enemy leader. No location, no nationality, no "How do we find him", just a name.

Like I said, they/we have gotten soft, far too used to having things handed to us.

And yes, the other ideas are great, but they're just variations on "The DM hands you the answer you missed". I.e. more of the treatment that's lead to this situation.

BTW: Our game sessions are from noon to 05:00 pm, so we aren't short on time in that sense, but as one member once described it, "Our group has all the focus of a horde of cocaine addled chipmunks."

For example, they spent an hour+ last week deciding how to travel across the desert: Shadow Walk, Wind Walk, Transport via Plants or just hitch up the camels to their cart and slog along.

I hate the "I'm out to win!' type of DMs, but I really need to get more adversarial.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6669384]Greenfield[/MENTION] This is entirely a style issue. You know your group best.

My suggestion is to run an exploration/logic puzzle montage in the earlier part of the session to find the right location. And I'd make two things explicitly clear: (a) there is a logic puzzle, and (b) making the wrong choice will have consequences.

How you want to handle those consequences depends on how sandbox-y your Round Robin game is. Would the group enjoy a completely different tangent to the main plot? Do that. Do they have unfinished business somewhere along the way? Roll with it. Are they obsessed with finding and following the main plot? Use a side trek which leads back to the main plot but at significant cost of resources.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, let's consider the current situation: The enemy agent they captured, killed, brought back to question then let die again had a base camp, literally, at the oasis they're camped at. They've done little to investigate it, other than cast Detect Magic so the could find good loot.

They are currently under attack by a horde of Dust Wights (sort of an undead Earth Elemental from MMIII).

If their defense/counter offensive tactics include nuking the whole place from orbit (i.e. flying overhead, out of the enemy's reach, and carpet bombing the whole area), then they're pretty much going to wipe out anything of value.

The party Druid should probably object to burning the only natural shade, forage and water source in the region to ashes.

If they restrain themselves then they will find the enemy's map, showing where he's supposed to meet up with the others. Problem solved.

If they burn the place to the ground, then I'll have them see that not only is there no crystal mountain out on their "sea of glass", there are also several other glass expanses around, which should prompt them to ask their guide something important.

If they destroy all clues and fail to ask their guide to guide them, then... they can't win.

If you can't lose, winning doesn't mean anything. It's a simple truth, one I've long quoted, but for some reason it hasn't come to mind in quite a while. I think it's time to remind my players of it.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Maybe I missed something: what's wrong with just having them get there and realize they're in the wrong place? Throw in a really tough encounter to punish them (if the Sea of Glass is a big landmark, no doubt some powerful dragon lives there!). If you're feeling nice, maybe the dragon knows where the real place is, or has a map. If you're not feeling nice, TPK.

And/or: They get there, and it turns out the Sea of Glass is at one end of the Glass Road, and the thing they want is at the other end. Now they have to run the gauntlet (of course, cruel glass devils lurk all along the glass road!).

 

[Greenfield]

That's more or less the scenario right now: They're there, it's the wrong place,and they're in the middle of a substantial battle that's already cost the life of a PC.

Okay, he died because he decided to jump up and down, wave his arms and yell, "Over here!" at a bunch of monsters, and bait them from five feet out of their reach. Monsters who, he *knew*, had something about them that called for a Fort Save.

And no, that isn't hyperbole, nor a euphamism for anything. It's a literal, precisely accurate description of what the character did.

My question is, do I hand them the solution in a sort of "easy come, easy go" kind of way, make them work for it, or just let them fail.

The "let them work for it" part is in no way a guarantee of success, by the way. I've had to beat them over the head with clues so far, and they've still missed them. I hate to say this, but when it comes to following clues, or even a printed map, they could get lost on a ladder.

They're not normally this way, but for some reason have gotten complacent of late, taking it for granted that somehow it will always work out in their favor.

And it's because of that that I have to consider letting it *not* work out in their favor this time. At least, not without a valid effort on their part.

Success/victory should never be a guarantee. If they want "validation", or a "self esteem camp" type of thing, they came to the wrong place. We, as DMs, shouldn't be in the business of handing out trophies simply for showing up.

If you can't lose, then winning doesn't mean anything.

 

[GX.Sigma]

That's more or less the scenario right now: They're there, it's the wrong place,and they're in the middle of a substantial battle that's already cost the life of a PC.

Okay, he died because he decided to jump up and down, wave his arms and yell, "Over here!" at a bunch of monsters, and bait them from five feet out of their reach. Monsters who, he *knew*, had something about them that called for a Fort Save.

And no, that isn't hyperbole, nor a euphamism for anything. It's a literal, precisely accurate description of what the character did.

My question is, do I hand them the solution in a sort of "easy come, easy go" kind of way, make them work for it, or just let them fail.

The "let them work for it" part is in no way a guarantee of success, by the way. I've had to beat them over the head with clues so far, and they've still missed them. I hate to say this, but when it comes to following clues, or even a printed map, they could get lost on a ladder.

They're not normally this way, but for some reason have gotten complacent of late, taking it for granted that somehow it will always work out in their favor.

And it's because of that that I have to consider letting it *not* work out in their favor this time. At least, not without a valid effort on their part.

Success/victory should never be a guarantee. If they want "validation", or a "self esteem camp" type of thing, they came to the wrong place. We, as DMs, shouldn't be in the business of handing out trophies simply for showing up.

If you can't lose, then winning doesn't mean anything.

It sounds like they've lost already.

Give them a death without dignity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfr2F8F1xms

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Very interesting! I think the crux of your problem is that you have only one session with which to "teach" your players anything! And instead of learning a powerful lesson, they may just find a completely unsatisfying end to something you've already put a lot of time into. Personally, I reckon that using your campaign in this way might be a bad way. If you had longer, you could implement the lessons over a longer period of time. FTR, I've actually responded because I totally get your plight I think that if you think there would be good value in teaching them the price of carelessness, and that its time to do it now, it would work best if you could make their failure spectacular and cool. That way your campaign finishes on a desirable "unforgettable" note, but they still just might learn a lesson.

 

[sabrinathecat]

Well, if you don't want to hit them over the head with a clue stick, and they insist on going to the wrong location, bring on doom and gloom. The enemy reaches the target, opens the gates of tartarus, and now, (when you get back from _____) and want to continue the game, they have to deal with the fact that they failed, and all hell has broken loose. Closing the gates and repairing the damage could be a major quest or three. Include a nasty devil who thanks them for playing right into his hands before he flies away on his magic broomstick of super-sonic booming.