Need help with Gestalt character

[Drowbane]

This is to prevent people from gaining abilities above what normally could be achieved through regular multiclassing. Such as the ftr1/wiz6)(sor7 with a +7 BAB or somebody staggaring ninja and rogue to get ten dice of sneak/sudden attack dice at tenth level. That is why the wording is that you take the better progression not the better bonus.

Whoa there! Where do you get the idea that Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike are close enough to the same thing so that a Gestalt Rogue | Ninja wouldn't get both? Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, and Skirmish all stack for multiclassing purposes, but they're not the same ability.

 

[Drowbane]

Saving throws are specifically intended to be calculated at a different rate than normal. WotC would have mentioned this in the errata, but since UA is nothing but optional/nonstandard houserules anyway, they decided that time spent on an errata for it would be better spent elsewhere. It kinda blows, I know.

But doesn't it make sense that a Bbn 3 / Fi 3 has the same saves as a Bbn 6 or Fi 6? Its just one of those little loopholes in multiclassing that really don't make a hell of alot of sense.

 

[Thanee]

As you rise in levels, you consult your BA and Save progressions. If one of them for your Gestalt Classes goes up, you improve... thus "the better progression from the two classes". Pretty simple really.

Too simple. A progression does involve multiple values, not just one (and no, the two sides of the Gestalt don't count, because you get the better progression from both, so each must have a progression ). Therefore, your method doesn't correlate to the description, because it's not a progression. And that's why I say it's wrong.

It also doesn't make any sense and is totally broken, but that's just a sidenote.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Drowbane]

Too simple. A progression does involve multiple values, not just one (and no, the two sides of the Gestalt don't count, because you get the better progression from both, so each must have a progression ). Therefore, your method doesn't correlate to the description, because it's not a progression. And that's why I say it's wrong.

It also doesn't make any sense and is totally broken, but that's just a sidenote.

Bye
Thanee

Hehe, you do realize I'm just yanking your chain... yes?

 

[Thanee]

Hehe, you do realize I'm just yanking your chain... yes?

No, actually. That's something, I assume, many people do wrong, and your posts didn't appear to be non-serious in any way.

Of course, I assume, that this is just a cheap cop-out, since you only now have realized of the futility of your ways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Of course, I assume, that this is just a cheap cop-out, since you only now have realized of the futility of your ways.

Well said.

To be serious, I have found it best not to allow even the +2 base save bonus for taking a new class or prestige class for gestalts. If you do the saves get insane in a big hurry, and they already ahve enough backup power with the second class.

I do allow it for regular characters, but for gestalts it is too much.

 

[Drowbane]

I need a hobby.

No, actually. That's something, I assume, many people do wrong, and your posts didn't appear to be non-serious in any way.

Of course, I assume, that this is just a cheap cop-out, since you only now have realized of the futility of your ways.

Bye
Thanee

Naw, I seen this subject come up repeatedly in the past year (or two?)... with you always explaining how it works. Its so hard to convey tone over the internet... without being too obvious.

My question to Stonedog regarding Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike were serious, however.

 

[Stone Dog]

Whoa there! Where do you get the idea that Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike are close enough to the same thing so that a Gestalt Rogue | Ninja wouldn't get both? Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, and Skirmish all stack for multiclassing purposes, but they're not the same ability.

From WotC. Sneak attack trumps Sudden Strike since for all purposes Sudden Strike is merely an inferior version of Sneak attack. Skirmish is mildly different since it applies to a completely seperate set of circumstances than either of them, but sneak attack still trumps it. So if your 10th level character has 5d6 sneak attack and 2d6 skirmish, and you skirmish over to attack an enemy your ally is flanking then you get 5d6 in sneak attack.
The intent of Gestalt is to give a character the abilities of two different character classes of the same level NOT to give a character abilities of a higher level than normal. A character with more than half their character level in precision based bonus damage (sneak, sudden, skirmish) is going beyond the intent of the gestalt rules.
If you have sneak attack and skirmish, you can use one where the other doesn't apply. Sneak attack if you are flanking, skirmish if you are just moving around alot or the greater if both applies. If you have both sneak attack and sudden strike then you just get sneak attack because there is no situation where sudden strike works and sneak attack doesn't.
This is different from normal multiclassing because it has to be to prevent abuses. If you juggle certain classes normally you can get a third level character with 3d6 worth of precision based damage, but the +0 BAB and poor saves even lower than normal are supposed to counteract that. Gestalt doesn't have that problem.

It is a loophole that needs errata to close, but WotC has confirmed that errata for Unearthed Arcana isn't on their priority list in any way. It was something like "Unearthed Arcana is a collection of OGL content optional or "house" rules. As none of it is official a seperate errata is unnecessary." It irritates me because every so often I find myself explaining a position that won't be supported in any published documents from Wizards.

But doesn't it make sense that a Bbn 3 / Fi 3 has the same saves as a Bbn 6 or Fi 6?

Yes. That is true. A gestalt character that had Bbn3/ftr3 and say wiz6 would have the same Fort save as a Bbn 6 or Ftr6 instead because both of them have six levels of good fort save.

Anyway, I have shared all the "wisdom" that WotC saw fit to give me and I am tired of it all. Take it or leave it as you see fit. I wash my hands of it.

Except to say that if you really wanted ten bonus dice, gestalt rogue with warlock. You can sneak attack with a ray so a tenth level warlock/rogue could get ten dice with a sneaky eldritch blast. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

There. That is all. There isn't anymore. Goodnight.

 

[Thanee]

The intent of Gestalt is to give a character the abilities of two different character classes of the same level NOT to give a character higher abilities than normal.

This is something worthy to be quoted.

This fundamental thought of the Gestalt rules is very important, and something many people do not seem to realize. Many people try to stack the classes together aiming to increase the total power of the character, while Gestalt is meant to offer more versatility mostly, giving characters less weaknesses and more abilities to apply in different situations.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Stone Dog]

This is something worthy to be quoted.

Thank you. I don't know it it needs editing, but my insomnia won't let go without it so I'll edit it to..

The intent of Gestalt is to give a character the abilities of two different character classes of the same level NOT to give a character abilities of a higher level than normal.

There... maybe now I can frickin sleep.