Need help with item hp?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Here's the situation:

A character has a magical crystal chalice and dips it into a pool of acid, filling it up (the character thought the acid was water). The acid deals 1d6 damage (no save), and 6 points is rolled.

The character then tries to wash the acid off with water. BOOM! The acid has an explosive reaction when exposed to water, dealing 3d6 damage to both the character and the chalice (no save). 14 points of damage is rolled.

Table 9-9, PH 166, doesn't list crystal. Glass has 1 hp/inch of hardness and a hardness of 1.

P. 165 of the PH states that "acid and sonic attacks deal damage normally to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit."

The question: Is the chalice destroyed? There's no saves involved so that's not an issue. Does hardness apply to acid/sonic attacks? The PH is unclear on this. Either way, the chalice takes 5 or 6 points of acid damage. What about an explosion? Is that fire damage? If it is, then the explosion damage is reduced to 7 points, -1 for hardness for a total of 6. That's a total of 11 or 12 points of damage. Even if crystal is better than glass, it still seems pretty clear that 12 points of damage would be enough to destroy it.

Comments?

 

[andargor]

Here's the situation:

A character has a magical crystal chalice and dips it into a pool of acid, filling it up (the character thought the acid was water). The acid deals 1d6 damage (no save), and 6 points is rolled.

The character then tries to wash the acid off with water. BOOM! The acid has an explosive reaction when exposed to water, dealing 3d6 damage to both the character and the chalice (no save). 14 points of damage is rolled.

Table 9-9, PH 166, doesn't list crystal. Glass has 1 hp/inch of hardness and a hardness of 1.

P. 165 of the PH states that "acid and sonic attacks deal damage normally to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit."

The question: Is the chalice destroyed? There's no saves involved so that's not an issue. Does hardness apply to acid/sonic attacks? The PH is unclear on this. Either way, the chalice takes 5 or 6 points of acid damage. What about an explosion? Is that fire damage? If it is, then the explosion damage is reduced to 7 points, -1 for hardness for a total of 6. That's a total of 11 or 12 points of damage. Even if crystal is better than glass, it still seems pretty clear that 12 points of damage would be enough to destroy it.

Comments?

Hmm, tricky.

First, I don't think the chalice would take damage from the acid. The Equipment list in the SRD lists "Acid (flask)", and in RL you put acid in glass bottles. And isn't crystal, in the common sense of the word, a purer form of glass? Unless you are talking about mineral crystal, like quartz. I do not know how the latter reacts to acid, and it's not spelled out in the rules.

So, if the acid doesn't damage the chalice, would the character try to clean it off with water? And does the character have Craft (alchemy)? Maybe you should have allowed a check to see if the character knows what he/she is doing.

As for the explosion, your call if it's fire (or perhaps bludgeoning damage). Your calculation looks correct for fire damage (1/2, -1 hardness).

In any case, unless it's the mother of all chalices, I doubt it's even 1 inch thick... So 1 hp would be my call, and destroyed chalice.

But again, it all depends if the acid damaged the chalice in the first place and if the character would have used water to clean it in that case.

EDIT: I forgot something, it's a magical chalice, so:

Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item's Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + one-half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.

This seems to indicate that magic items always get a saving throw. I know you said "no save", but this might allow it.


Andargor

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I too saw that part about all magic items getting saves. But it looks to me like that statement, when looked at in context, refers to the paragraph before that states "nonmagical, unattended items never make saving throws." Thus, the statement you're referring to could be seen as an exception for magic items. I don't read it to mean that magic items get a save even when there isn't one for the effect in question (how would you even determine the DC for a non-spell effect?).

The part about acid and flasks. The flask description states it can be made of ceramic, glass, or metal. I would assume that a flask holding acid has been selected based on it's ability not to be damaged by the acid. That being said, I don't know much about acid and glass. Maybe glass isn't affected by acid? What about crystal?

 

[Shadow145]

Okay, you just had an explosion inside a crystal chalice. Forget the acid, if it was taking that much damage from the acid it would have dissolved in the pool when you put it into it (6 points kills a wizard).

I'm envisioning a chemical reaction where the acid and water react in an explosion, pressure blowing out. Cool trick on PC's, I'll have to remember that one. For more fun you can add double damage to the poor sap looking into the chalice when they added the water, since it would blow in the direction of least resistance, and extra piercing damage from shards of chalice all over the place, but now we're just getting silly.

But as for the fire/bludgeoning damage...Forget about hit points for the moment. Lets face it, there was enough damage done to wreck the chalice. I'd give it 1 HP as above.

I'd allow a Reflex save for half in this situation, but ultimately DM has final say. So theoretically, what is the DC? I'd set the DC like a trap with a spell. This seems about a second level spell effect if you ask me, that sets the DC at 10+2*1.5= DC 13. Of course this would be for half damage, so your chalice is toast even if it makes the save. However your PC could avoid a little of the damage.

 

[tarchon]

The part about acid and flasks. The flask description states it can be made of ceramic, glass, or metal. I would assume that a flask holding acid has been selected based on it's ability not to be damaged by the acid. That being said, I don't know much about acid and glass. Maybe glass isn't affected by acid? What about crystal?

Most glass is pretty acid resistant, except for hydrofluoric acid. In common parlance, "crystal" is just fancy glass, but if it's crystal as in "mineral crystal," it would depend on the mineral.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Of course, if there's an open vat full of hydrofluoric acid in front of you, whether or not your crystal goblet is going to survive immersion is the least of your worries...