Need help with math justification.

[Garthanos]

Or perhaps people giving the advice on stats can do basic math but simply have a different assessment of the situation?

In particular, as people have mentioned, starting with Str 14, Con 13, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 12 could be easily changed to Str 16, Int 8, Cha 10 for a stronger melee character at little cost.

Yup different assessment ... like I said my players look at a PC... and dont see the 5% percent battle functionality as better than the 5% social one plus 5% intellectual ... when they visualize the characters in normal everyday actions.

I think Draco is right getting a better weapon will have far more visible impact with far less cost (especially for those who have a broad picture about the nature of there characters).

 

[Polyhedron]

Nevermind, I was looking at the second poster's stats, not the OP.

 

[Stuntman]

The problem isn't that I'm ineffectual, it's that I'm wasting my time not doing things that are buffs. If I attack, unless it's to take off that last couple of hp, it was better for me to buff someone or debuff the enemy, usually with my non-damaging attack.

Do you realise that a cleric is a leader. Leaders are best at buffing allies. If you try to do something non-leaderish, you will do it poorly. Your powers are designed to help allies more than to dish out damage to enemies. You simply sound like you're complaining that you are not dealing enough damage by playing a character that is not about dealing damage.

Who knows, perhaps it's just striker withdrawal. Playing the buff class without the high cha or int necessary to always do the talking usually doesn't work well. At least I still try and hope for high rolls. Funny how people will go along it with though....

If you really want to do more damage, then you should have played a character that does deal more damage. It sounds like you are used to playing characters that deal a lot of damage and simply not enjoying playing a character whose forte is something other than dealing damage. Why did you choose to play a cleric in the first place?

It just sounds like you just do not enjoy playing a cleric. That happens. Our group decided to just make some other characters and play a few encounters to try out different classes. One person played a cleric and simply did not like it. It sounds like that's what happened to you. You played a cleric who appears to be pretty effective in helping your party, but you just want to be able to do something else more to your liking.

 

[Akaiku]

4th ed kinda had that whole "Being a healer doesn't take up all your actions healing" thing going for it when it first came out. With the new pacifist powers being directly better at adding survival and NOT having "also attack" on them, it seems to make it best for the healer to just be a healer and sit around and heal. It saddens me that trying to heal and kick someone else in the teeth is a fail option comparatively. Restatting to be min-maxed just doesn't sit right with me as I know how to build that way but wanted to try something more balanced.

Perhaps I can convince the gm to let me have a same weapon that I am currently using visually but upgrade it to a superior weapon mechanically.

They really need to make a striker with a minor in healer, so people can play nothing but major in striker minor in some utility that isn't damage. I've yet to see someone complain that strikering isn't fun.

 

[DracoSuave]

4th ed kinda had that whole "Being a healer doesn't take up all your actions healing" thing going for it when it first came out. With the new pacifist powers being directly better at adding survival and NOT having "also attack" on them, it seems to make it best for the healer to just be a healer and sit around and heal. It saddens me that trying to heal and kick someone else in the teeth is a fail option comparatively. Restatting to be min-maxed just doesn't sit right with me as I know how to build that way but wanted to try something more balanced.

Every time you don't attack an enemy, it is like you are healing them for what your DPR would otherwise be. You're not making headway on the dude unless you're debilitating that enemy.

There's such a thing as too much healing, and you'll find a lot of times where you 'need' that healing, you'd be better off actually helping defeat the monsters and ending the fights sooner.

 

[Stuntman]

4th ed kinda had that whole "Being a healer doesn't take up all your actions healing" thing going for it when it first came out. With the new pacifist powers being directly better at adding survival and NOT having "also attack" on them, it seems to make it best for the healer to just be a healer and sit around and heal. It saddens me that trying to heal and kick someone else in the teeth is a fail option comparatively. Restatting to be min-maxed just doesn't sit right with me as I know how to build that way but wanted to try something more balanced.

Min/maxing won't really help your situation. It seems the powers you chosen dictates what you are good at. Unfortunately it just isn't what you find fun. It just sounds like you should not have chosen to play a leader class in the first place.

Perhaps I can convince the gm to let me have a same weapon that I am currently using visually but upgrade it to a superior weapon mechanically.

I'm not sure if that will really help since most of your powers appear to be implement powers. Implement powers use your implement, not your weapon.

They really need to make a striker with a minor in healer, so people can play nothing but major in striker minor in some utility that isn't damage. I've yet to see someone complain that strikering isn't fun.

They did. It's called a striker who multiclassed to a leader. Better yet, why not just play a striker and forget about any leader abilities? It seems that what you really want to do is dish out great amounts of damage. Don't worry about any leader abilities and just play a striker. You'll probably be happier that way.

Oh. If you're thinking that your party really needs a leader, you don't.

 

[ahammer]

Every time you don't attack an enemy, it is like you are healing them for what your DPR would otherwise be. You're not making headway on the dude unless you're debilitating that enemy.

There's such a thing as too much healing, and you'll find a lot of times where you 'need' that healing, you'd be better off actually helping defeat the monsters and ending the fights sooner.

why thats not 100% true. what I will say there is more then one way to skin a cat. somtimes that debuff you put on the mob does more dpr then you would have done with your attack.

but some leader classes do more damage then others and some do more healing then others. all end up with the same goal take the moster down before your party all die. just diffrent ways of going about it.

if you dont like the pacifist powers type healer play a none pacifist powers healer build or play a difrent type of healer.

 

[DracoSuave]

Do you realise that a cleric is a leader. Leaders are best at buffing allies. If you try to do something non-leaderish, you will do it poorly. Your powers are designed to help allies more than to dish out damage to enemies. You simply sound like you're complaining that you are not dealing enough damage by playing a character that is not about dealing damage.

No, I think he wants to do -some- damage. He's taken powers that don't deal damage, however, and that's why he's lagging. Grab a big weapon, take weapon powers, he can still lead -just fine- while contributing to the damage-meter.

Granted, Warlord'd be better for that, but a Cleric -does just fine.-

 

[Tony Vargas]

4th ed kinda had that whole "Being a healer doesn't take up all your actions healing" thing going for it when it first came out. With the new pacifist powers being directly better at adding survival and NOT having "also attack" on them, it seems to make it best for the healer to just be a healer and sit around and heal.

Just don't use those powers. There's no certain way to value taking an active part in a battle vs providing a bit more healing. It's a judgement call. If it's no fun to be all pacifist, don't do it.

I've yet to see someone complain that strikering isn't fun.

My current group is up to 9 people. We've done two campaigns and some one-off stuff. Six of us have played a striker at least once. Four complained it was boring or frustrating at some point.

I think for the other 3 it was the specific class. But, for me personally, I just don't much care for the role. I like having a bit more to do than piling on a hunk of damage to whoever's catching the beat-down at the moment.

 

[DracoSuave]

if you dont like the pacifist powers type healer play a none pacifist powers healer build or play a difrent type of healer.

Leader.

The term is -Leader- because healing is a -part- of their contribution. And not even a major one for some builds and classes.

Leaders are -buffers-, the hp score is just one of the things they can buff. Clerics are especially good at this kind of buffing but it's not their only trick, by far.