Negative initiative numbers

[JiffyPopTart]

I am going to suggest after playtesting they change the rule to +20 init for surprising characters. For some people any math besides adding numbers makes their brain grind to a halt.

DS

 

[Paraxis]

I dislike the -20 penalty as well and second the idea to just make it a +20 for the surprising characters.

But what I would really like to see is the advantage/disadvantage rules being used more, give the surprised side disadvantage on the initiative roll and any character going before them has advantage against them that first round.

 

[Sanglorian]

I do like the idea about adding 20 instead of subtracting 20 for initiative: it does make the maths easier.

One thing to keep in mind is that it does affect monsters entering the fight half-way through. Under the current rules, an orc band that bursts in halfway through a fight against some kobolds would (presumably) act around the same time as the adventurers; under the suggested alternative the orcs would act around the same time as the kobolds.

I don't know which system is better, but it's worth keeping in mind.

 

[the Jester]

Wow, it never occurred to me that "-20 to initiative" might mean anything other than "you probably go after all the guys who aren't surprised."

I see nothing to indicate any other effect in my playtest packet.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I would say it just means that the person with the lowest number still goes last. I wouldn't be surprised if you have a few initiatives that are in the negatives. -4 will still go before a -5.

 

[rjfTrebor]

-20 is there to make sure surprised people go last in the first round. i used it last night and it worked fine.

i will second the +20 for surprising instead though, it's more natural and might clear up some of this confusion.

 

[1Mac]

I do like the idea about adding 20 instead of subtracting 20 for initiative: it does make the maths easier.

One thing to keep in mind is that it does affect monsters entering the fight half-way through. Under the current rules, an orc band that bursts in halfway through a fight against some kobolds would (presumably) act around the same time as the adventurers; under the suggested alternative the orcs would act around the same time as the kobolds.

I don't know which system is better, but it's worth keeping in mind.

So if the orcs manage to surprise the party in the middle of the encounter with the kobolds, they just get a +20 bonus to their initiative? I like it!

 

[Mercule]

I am going to suggest after playtesting they change the rule to +20 init for surprising characters. For some people any math besides adding numbers makes their brain grind to a halt.

Nope. If you have the "cardinal four" characters, and the rogue is perceptive enough to not be surprised be the goblins, it's much more wonky to remember to add the +20 to his score, too, because it's not like he got surprise on his allies. Keep it as -20 for the oblivious. Works out better.

Alternatively (or additionally), I kinda like the idea of the surprising having Advantage on the surprised or the surprised being at a Disadvantage during the first round.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Keep it as -20 for the oblivious. Works out better.

I see what you are saying, and you are correct that giving the surprising team a bonus versus giving the surprised team a penalty does end up with weird results.

Knowing how bad people are at math, however, I would even be happy with sacrificing some realism and judge that surprise be determined on a partywide basis. If one party member gets wind of an ambush then all the party gains the benefit of not being surprised.

Great point!

DS