Negative Player

[airwalkrr]

I have a player in my campaign who has very low self-esteem. He doesn't believe he is very intelligent and gets frustrated by every minor set-back that occurs in the game. And I do mean truly minor set-backs, like failing a climb check that you can just try again with a second move action. This isn't crucial situations where the turnout of an entire encounter comes down to the result of a single roll. It's simple stuff. He believes he has bad luck, that his rolls are terrible, and that he isn't very bright.

The truth of the matter is that he is wrong. He is a lot smarter than he believe he is, comes up with good ideas, and contributes a whole lot to the group. But any time an encounter comes up that requires perhaps a unique way to handle the encounter or doesn't exactly play to his character's specialty he throws up his hands and announces he might as well create a new character because his character is "useless" for this encounter. But his claims belie the fact that his character is the single most powerful combat character in the group. I just finished a game session where he was dealing 80% of the damage in the group. He is smart. He knows how to build effective characters and use pretty effective tactics.

I haven't known him for more than half a year, but I suspect he has been told all his life that he isn't worth much or isn't that smart and it has taken a toll on his self-esteem. He really is a good player. He always shows up on time. He understands the rules. And he plays effectively. But for some reason he just doesn't believe it.

Do any of you out there have ideas for how to deal with a player like this so that he starts having more fun?

 

[Gilladian]

There's not a lot you can do. Every time he does something right, give him a small positive encouragement. Don't make a big deal out of it, but say something like "Wow, dude, that was amazing! You just did 80% of the damage in that whole fight!"

And get the other Players to do similar things. Have them ASK him for advice. Get them to have him help build their characters, or at least just ask "what feat would YOU take, dude?"

It won't make a lot of difference, but over time it may help. The other thing to TRY, is to make him aware how often he's negative. It may just be a habit. Just say "Hey, you're not useless. Every time you say that, it makes us all feel bad, because it isn't true. Try saying something GOOD when things go right for a change!"

 

[Mark CMG]

When someone brings something that deep-seated to the table from outside the game, I'm not sure you can do much more for them than what Gilladian has suggested, positive reinforcement when warranted (and perhaps downplaying inconsequential results during play).

 

[DM Howard]

I agree with Mark CMG and Gilladian. Positivity will go a long way though, but also be positive in your own attitudes as well. If the entire group is being positive is will be infectious.

 

[Wik]

I'm going to offer the dissenting decision here. Not only is there not much you can do, but there's not much you SHOULD do.

He's a fellow gamer. He's someone you game with occasionally. He is not, however, your responsibility. You have absolutely no reason to buoy his self confidence.

That being said, it's an admirable goal you've set, and positive reinforcement could work... but I think you'd be better off just saying "dude, you're pretty harsh on yourself. The only person who thinks you're a crappy player is you. Everyone else likes you and thinks your character is great."

Personally, though. This doesn't sound like a long term friend, but just a casual acquaintance you game with. If we tried to fix everyone around us, we'd find ourselves going crazy. I think you're better off just not getting involved, or at the very least, not really seeing him as some sort of "project".

That being said, I've had gamers come out and help me out in rough times. And I've done the same thing for them. But they were gamers that were also my friends. If he's not really a good friend, I think getting involved might be a bad idea.

 

[Thunderfoot]

And I will go with all of the above, with a caveat. I think its awesome that you want to help, but a Wik stated, remember that you cannot help everyone, especially those that do not want help. Not saying he doesn't, but let me show you where I'm coming from and maybe you'll get it.

I was a step child, my brother who was 8 years older than I was a star athlete, hunter, manly man. He was my step-father's only natural born child and that was fine with him. I was an after thought in most cases, and we certainly never agreed on much. So I got the useless speech, a lot.

However, I was also enough of a rough neck that all that did was spur me to prove him, and everyone else wrong. I pushed myself at first to fit in and be like my older brother and eventually came to grips that I was me and screw everyone else. It was a hard won fight that took 13 years to win. That was back in 1986.

Since then I struggle with the "not good enough" all the time, and was recently diagnosed with clinical depression. I had fought so hard for so long, I had ignored signs that could have gotten me help. Oh well, that's me.

The point of this rather long winded history is that I had to come to the decision to fight back. I had to come to grips with the verbal/emotional attacks versus the obvious truths they were being stated against. I had to eventually realize there was something else wrong and had to get help.

You can do amazing things to help boost his self esteem. You can become his friend, take him places so that you can offer positive reinforcement, get him involved in esteem building activities and none of it is going to help until he comes to the realization that there is something there to work with.

What he needs is professional mental care, and you can not suggest it as he will most likely ignore you. If you could figure a way for a councilor to intervene that would be great, but he may feel like he was betrayed or attacked. Mental illnesses, whether severe or slight, triggered by nature or nurture and long-term or short-term are still illnesses. If you aren't a doctor, don't try to treat them, you may end up doing more harm than good.

Positive speech, an open ear, a friendly smile and encouraging words are great. Keeping your eyes open for erratic or dangerous behavior is a MUST. Do not hesitate to call authorities if you see something going south. To paraphrase on old instruction set about entering a house: "No matter how many signs you put up, sidewalks you guide him to or even if you hold his hand to get him there, he has to ultimately open the door to the house and walk through."

I really hate to be this way but you need to be encouraging but be prepared for all your efforts to ultimately fail. If they don't, great,but you have to understand that though treatable in almost 90% of all cases the hardest part is getting people in the door to get help. Only about 15% of all people that need it, get it. How's that for sobering.

 

[olshanski]

What kind of person has their self-esteem tied into whether a d20 roll was sufficient to succeed at a climb check in a roleplaying game?

If the person really has such a tissue-paper self-esteem as you suggest, then he should be seeing a therapist rather than spending time playing make-believe.

The guy sounds like a whiner and a passive-aggresssive roleplayer and a drag to be around. Give him the boot. Unless you are a therapist doing pro-bono work, and the other players don't mind wasting their time with a whiner.

 

[Nork]

The best way to teach someone a life lesson is to teach it to yourself where the person you want to learn it is watching.


Anything worth doing is something you are going to screw up ten times over before you get it right. Getting down on yourself for making a mistake doesn't make a lot of sense with that being the case. People can freak out before they learn this life lesson (well some people just do nothing but blame others or avoid anything hard). It sounds like your player is in that boat.

When you make mistakes as a DM, stop and make note of them and be positive and iterative about addressing the mistake. Say "oops, I screwed that up because of XYZ. I'll try and only screw it up half as badly next time around so my campaign will be twice as good!" or "Oh man, I'm still not totally liking how I'm handling this or that, but I feel like it went more smoothly than last time so I'm happy."

People tend to do this self-correction process silently, but verbalizing it can help someone who hasn't learned that not only is it OK to screw up: it is expected.

You want them to focus on adjusting fire, not on being perfect the first time. Complementing them on doing something right may simply put more pressure on them to want to avoid doing anything wrong. Letting them know that you screw up ALL THE TIME (just like everyone else), but that you are positive about it and just shrug and learn from your mistakes will hopefully let them realize that hey, they can screw up too as long as they adjust fire afterward.

 

[S'mon]

You know this person better than I, but this does not sound like a low-self-esteem or depressive player to me, it sounds like a spoiled, fragile-ego player, the kind who needs absolutely everything to go his way at all times. IME this kind of personality develops as a result of over-solicitude for their self esteem, and techniques that are good with actual low-self-esteem players will have the opposite effect with fragile-ego players.

Low-self-esteem players appreciate a chance for their PC to shine; to feel good about their character and their role. Often they are shy and need drawing out. They are used to setbacks in their personal lives and are unsurprised by setbacks in game, seeing them as par for the course. They lack confidence in their ability to succeed, but are delighted when they do succeed. They benefit from a less adversarial GMing approach and often from more cooperative play - story creation more than gamism.

Fragile ego players already assume the world does and should resolve around them, and freak out at any little setback. They discount success, since they expect success to be automatic, but are appalled by any little failure, often blaming those around them/the DM. This kind of player needs a kick up the pants, they need to be taught that the world does not revolve around them, life (and D&D) is hard, and success comes through working with others.

 

[JustKim]

Can you encourage him to seek professional help? I've been playing with someone who matches that description for many years. Things do not change until the person gets professional help for depression or whatever the problem may be. Being a supportive friend is a nice idea but it's not treatment, and in my experience it just insulates the person safely in a bubble for their bad behaviors.

Maybe his situation is completely different though, people are an exciting rainbow of foibles.