D&D General Neoplatonic Influence on D&D

[Celebrim]

Look at this way - the Nine Hells draws a lot from Dante's Inferno - but do we think that Gygax (or Ward) ever read it?

Is it possible to get a college education without reading Dante's Inferno?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Is it possible to get a college education without reading Dante's Inferno?

I coped perfectly well without it.

 

[M.L. Martin]

Is it possible to get a college education without reading Dante's Inferno?

Depends on the school and the curriculum. I suspect Gygax and Ward were familiar with it, if only because of mentions of Dis, Geryon and Malebolge in the MM; Greenwood (or whoever mapped out the 'official' Nine Hells) was either less so or took liberties, with misspelling Caina as "Cania" and placing it a level above where it should be, etc.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

To start off the Archon Celestials are clearly inspired by Neoplatonist sources

I imagine they were filtered through - in order - Early Christian polemics, Renaissance magic, Theosophy, the Western Occult Tradition and various pulps from the 20s to the 60s.

It's not as though the game designers were consulting Origen.

Gnostism

Gnosticism is a very fuzzy word.

Any other insights?

Nobody can agree about what was happening with religion in the first couple of centuries CE.

 

[M.L. Martin]

I don't think a lot of people realize the Neoplatonist influences on D&D mythology and so I thought I'd point it out and start a thread on it.

To start off the Archon Celestials are clearly inspired by Neoplatonist sources, because in Gnostism Archons are seen as what can best described as Lawful Evil, while in Neoplatonism and Hermetism the Archons are Lawful Good.

Also in most forms of Gnostism and Heremetism there are only Seven Celestial Archons. In Neoplatonism you have the both the Seven Celestial Archons and the Hylic Archons (Archons of Matter), D&D Archons Paragons came in the form of God-like rulers of the seven levels of heaven, and then you have the rest of the Archon race.

Also in earlier editions that faithful eventually merged via Henosis into their God.

Any other insights?

Thanks for the clarification. I've always wondered where the D&D archons came from, as they weren't from the hierarchy I know (Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, Angels) or any other I've heard of. And while I have some knowledge of Neoplatonism, it's as it stands filtered and Christianized through [Psuedo-]Dionysius, Augustine and Aquinas.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Look at this way - the Nine Hells draws a lot from Dante's Inferno - but do we think that Gygax (or Ward) ever read it?

Gary says that was the derivation (which surprised me).

As a Christian I stayed well away from basing any of the D&D game on scripture.

The Deva, Solarm and Planatar are benign and rather angelic in their purposes.

No Milton, but I did use a bit of Dante's Inferno is developing the denizens of the Nine Hells.

His claim that D&D isn't based on scripture doesn't seem quite right tho - the cleric spells Sticks to Snakes and Lower/Part Water frex.

 

[Parmandur]

Thanks for the clarification. I've always wondered where the D&D archons came from, as they weren't from the hierarchy I know (Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, Angels) or any other I've heard of. And while I have some knowledge of Neoplatonism, it's as it stands filtered and Christianized through [Psuedo-]Dionysius, Augustine and Aquinas.

The latter are actually a very faithful rendition of the Tradition (Bonaventure more than Aquinas, but still).

 

[Tonguez]

there are as many neo-platonic influences in DnD as their are in the Deadpool movie, which is to say that there are some because neoplatonic ideas have influenced western society and myth, not due to any deliberate intention

 

[gyor]

Thanks for the clarification. I've always wondered where the D&D archons came from, as they weren't from the hierarchy I know (Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, Angels) or any other I've heard of. And while I have some knowledge of Neoplatonism, it's as it stands filtered and Christianized through [Psuedo-]Dionysius, Augustine and Aquinas.

Iamblichus (Pagan system) = Dionysius (Christian system)

Hypercosmic Gods = Seraphim
Liberated Gods = Cherubim
Encosmic Gods/Celestial Archons = Thrones Sub-lunar Gods/Archons = Dominions Archangels = Powers
Angels = Authorities
Daimons = Principalities
Heroes = Archangels
Purified Souls = Angels

From the book Living Thuergy by Jeffery S. Kupperman.

 

[gyor]

I imagine they were filtered through - in order - Early Christian polemics, Renaissance magic, Theosophy, the Western Occult Tradition and various pulps from the 20s to the 60s.

It's not as though the game designers were consulting Origen.



Gnosticism is a very fuzzy word.



Nobody can agree about what was happening with religion in the first couple of centuries CE.

I wasn't thinking of Christian Saints like Origen, but rather polytheistic Neoplatonic Philosophiers like Iamblichus and Proclus.