D&D 5E Nerfing Archery

[Sacrosanct]

Reinforcing what Charlaquin said. I think the issue at most tables is that people ignore all of the mitigating factors. Kinda like spellcasting when people don’t track spell components, interruptions, etc.

Track ammunition, consistently use cover rules, and enforce penalties when you have an opponent within melee range, and it helps. If you don’t use sharpshooter fear, archery isn’t super awesome compared to melee IMO. YMMV obviously.

 

[Charlaquin]

Track ammunition. You do not have to track every individual piece but hand waving at all together is one of the biggest empowerment of ranged combat.

Since the rule is that you recover half your spent ammo after an encounter, I just have the players mark off one piece of ammo every other time they attack. Alternatively, you could say you only lose ammo on a miss and maybe on a crit, though that will likely make characters more than 50% ammo-efficient.

For thrown weapons though, I would have the player mark off each time they throw one, but they recover all thrown weapons after the encounter.

If you use firearms, track every shot from them, no recovering ammo. Also, firing one requires both a piece of ammo and a use of powder.

 

[NotAYakk]

I'm seeing some evidence that you aren't using the rules as written.

No sneak attack beyond a certain range (30' or whatever)

There is no sneak attack beyond short range.

Disadvantage against targets in melee combat with creatures their size or larger.

It is hard to fire into melee without creatures getting at least some cover.

Archery provokes AoO if used within 5' of an enemy. (Maybe only applies to crossbows/bows, but not thrown.)

You already have disadvantage on attacks if an enemy is within 5'. That is usually bad enough.

Feats

Note that crossbow expert+sharpshooter negates much of the above. Your short range is your long range, you ignore cover, you don't take disadvantage on range attacks when enemies are next to you.

Ranged rogues get the least benefits from those feats, as they don't have the tap-count to exploit the -5/+10 option, and their sneak attack damage makes it less efficient.

Usually the benefits of SS/XE aren't worth forgoing a +1 to hit and damage from an attack stat. So this is a variant human or level 6+ or 8+ problem; players who go XE instead of +2 dex will probably not beat the higher dex characters DPR in general.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I know there are a number of you out there who agree with me that archery is too powerful in 5e. (If you don't agree that's fine; my goal with this isn't to argue the point.). Rather than rein in the damage across the board, I'd like to see its effectiveness vary situationally.

Assuming you agree, at least to some extrent, what are thoughts about the following options? Any other suggestions?

(These aren't meant to be applied all together....these are just different ideas.)

1. No sneak attack beyond a certain range (30' or whatever)
2. Disadvantage against targets in melee combat with creatures their size or larger.
3. Archery provokes AoO if used within 5' of an enemy. (Maybe only applies to crossbows/bows, but not thrown.)
4. Use cover rules if other characters are in melee combat with. (No rule change needed here.)
5. If shooting into a melee, if you miss by 5 or more, roll an attack against an ally. (DM's choice)
6. Options for negating penalties, or maybe granting Advantage if there aren't penalties.
   1. Use your bonus action (to aim)
   2. Voluntarily roll with disadvantage (not cancelled if you have Advantage for some reason)
   3. Forego additional attack(s) if you have one (again, to aim)
   4. Feats

We use no attribute damage bonus beyon 30ft.
That makes it more balanced for both sides, because long range focus fire does not hurt as much.

 

[tommybahama]

Archers were a thing historically and counters were made to deal with them. Why don't you DMs do the same with your encounters? Have a spell caster or enemy archer target the party's ranged fighters, flying creatures that will soar over the other melee attackers to attack ranged fighters 1v1 in h2h combat, etc.?

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm seeing some evidence that you aren't using the rules as written.

There is no sneak attack beyond short range.

This is not true. The only stipulations are that you use a finesses or ranged weapon, and you either have advantage on your roll, or an ally is within 5' of your target.

It is hard to fire into melee without creatures getting at least some cover.

That is a house rule though. I don't recall it being a RAW that firing into melee means they get cover.

 

[GlassJaw]

We secretly replaced Elfcrusher's archery kit with a nerf one. Let see what happens. (I forget the voice over person.)

It was a Folger's commercial and later parodied by Chris Farley on SNL. Hilarious!

 

[Stoutstien]

This is not true. The only stipulations are that you use a finesses or ranged weapon, and you either have advantage on your roll, or an ally is within 5' of your target.



That is a house rule though. I don't recall it being a RAW that firing into melee means they get cover.

RAW all creatures provide at least half cover if not more. So firing into melee doesn't necessarily call for it, firing over/passed anyone does.

 

[Sacrosanct]

RAW all creatures provide at least half cover if not more. So firing into melee doesn't necessarily call for it, firing over/passed anyone does.

No, that's not RAW to my knowledge. It says you can get half cover from a creature, but there is no rule that all creatures provide half cover, and no rule that melee combat means everyone in melee combat gets half cover. That's a DM ruling to make it so, not RAW.

 

[Oofta]

What I've considered:

• Longbows require strength, not dex. Shortbows still use dex.
• Modify Sharpshooter, it doesn't allow you to ignore cover.
• Remove crossbow expertise.

That, along with enforcing cover and other penalties is probably enough for me. I don't want to totally nerf ranged casters, I just don't want someone shooting a guard that peeps through an arrow slit at 200 yards with no penalty.