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[Shroomy]

I don't have the disconnect that you guys seem to. Characters with the Divine power source are champions of their faith and channel divine power/energy to smite their enemies and bolster their allies.

 

[pukunui]

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. I quite like the martial and arcane powers we've seen, but it seems like every time I see a new divine power it's "ugh...really?"

One of the only things I like about the divine powers so far is the fact that they're calling them prayers.

I like all the arcane stuff but I have to say there are a few martial powers I don't really like either. Like the ranger's Split The Tree. Why is that something a ranger can only do once a day? That only makes sense from a purely metagame perspective (eg. put a limit on it so that the ranger can't use it for every attack).

I don't have the disconnect that you guys seem to. Characters with the Divine power source are champions of their faith and channel divine power/energy to smite their enemies and bolster their allies.

What I don't like is the fact that in order to bolster their allies they have to smite their enemies. I feel like they ought to be able to do the bolstering without the smiting ... or the smiting without the bolstering.

 

[The Little Raven]

I don't have the disconnect that you guys seem to. Characters with the Divine power source are champions of their faith and channel divine power/energy to smite their enemies and bolster their allies.

If a cleric can raise someone from the dead using diamond dust, I don't see why a holy warrior couldn't get his god's favor, blessing, protection, and aid from punching people in the face. I mean, his god did hire him to kick ass and take names.

What I don't like is the fact that in order to bolster their allies they have to smite their enemies. I feel like they ought to be able to do the bolstering without the smiting ... or the smiting without the bolstering.

Well, you can forgo the actual attack and all that, since when it says "Effect:," it happens regardless of attack or not. So, feel free to ignore the attack part, or the secondary effect when you want it to be a smite.

I look at it like this... the paladin is not a shepherd... he's a wolfhound. He protects the flock by tooth and claw.

 

[pukunui]

Well, you can forgo the actual attack and all that, since when it says "Effect:," it happens regardless of attack or not. So, feel free to ignore the attack part, or the secondary effect when you want it to be a smite.

I look at it like this... the paladin is not a shepherd... he's a wolfhound. He protects the flock by tooth and claw.

I think I will.

 

[Shroomy]

What I don't like is the fact that in order to bolster their allies they have to smite their enemies. I feel like they ought to be able to do the bolstering without the smiting ... or the smiting without the bolstering.

I would probably agree with you if all of the divine classes' powers were attack powers (and in the context of attack powers, it makes sense to smite and enemy and bolster an ally), but utility powers and class features don't require attack rolls.

 

[Fifth Element]

Well, you can forgo the actual attack and all that, since when it says "Effect:," it happens regardless of attack or not. So, feel free to ignore the attack part, or the secondary effect when you want it to be a smite.

Yes, but as I've asked before, if I can use attack A and get add-on effect A, or use attack B and get add-on effect B, why can't I use attack A and get add-on effect B, given that the specific effects are not linked by cause and effect? If it's just a quick prayer before the attack, why do the effects have to be tied to a specific attack form?

 

[Caliber]

For those who wish to split the Divine "attack + buff" abilities apart, I'd suggest making the Buff portion a standard action that CAN be combined with an attack (but does not have to be).

Even if they do not wish to attack something, however, they should still be required to make some sort of attack roll, unless the buff affect takes place irregardless of the success of the attack roll.

That would be less of a balance shift that making them Minor/Whatever actions, and letting some make a standard melee attack with one, at least IMO.

 

[The Little Raven]

Yes, but as I've asked before, if I can use attack A and get add-on effect A, or use attack B and get add-on effect B, why can't I use attack A and get add-on effect B, given that the specific effects are not linked by cause and effect? If it's just a quick prayer before the attack, why do the effects have to be tied to a specific attack form?

Because they're balanced to go together in a single ability. Things would have to be designed differently if it was a "pick one from column A and one from column B."

 

[Fifth Element]

For those who wish to split the Divine "attack + buff" abilities apart, I'd suggest making the Buff portion a standard action that CAN be combined with an attack (but does not have to be).

I'm already considering making it a minor action, rather than introducing standard actions that can be used at the same time as certain other standard actions.

 

[Fifth Element]

Because they're balanced to go together in a single ability. Things would have to be designed differently if it was a "pick one from column A and one from column B."

Yes, I realize the game balance reasons for it. But how do you explain it in-game? If it's just a quick prayer, why can you only do it when making a specific type of attack?