D&D 4E New 4e Info! GAMA Tradeshow Scoop

[WhatGravitas]

I'm already considering making it a minor action, rather than introducing standard actions that can be used at the same time as certain other standard actions.

Problem: You have up to three minor actions per round. You don't want buff-spamming clerics/paladins (that's why I had a similar solution above).

Cheers, LT.

 

[The Little Raven]

If it's just a quick prayer, why can you only do it when making a specific type of attack?

Because it's the particular prayer you decided to do at the time, and that's how the prayer works. It's just like why fireball deals fire damage instead of cold damage: because that's what it was designed to do.

 

[pukunui]

Because they're balanced to go together in a single ability. Things would have to be designed differently if it was a "pick one from column A and one from column B."

Being balanced to go together does not mean that it makes sense for them to go together. Not being a game designer, balance really has very little meaning for me. I want things to make sense in the context of the game, and frankly I just can't get my head around the sense of combining specific, seemingly-unrelated effects with a single cause.

 

[tomtill]

Yes, I realize the game balance reasons for it. But how do you explain it in-game? If it's just a quick prayer, why can you only do it when making a specific type of attack?

Well, one option would be to say that the cleric's quick prayer, which is granted unto him to "smite" (not the game term) his enemies, only gives him a finite amount of divine energy.

He can split that energy between attacking and healing/buffing. So, if he chooses an attack form that drains off most of the divine energy, he only has a little left for healing/buffing, and vice versa.

 

[Fifth Element]

Because it's the particular prayer you decided to do at the time, and that's how the prayer works. It's just like why fireball deals fire damage instead of cold damage: because that's what it was designed to do.

But this is why the lack of cause and effect is a problem. A fireball causes fire damage because it's made of fire. A mace attack giving a save bonus, but a holy flame attack activating a healing surge (or whatever) does not have the same connection. They're only that way because they're written that way, and the add-on effect could have just as easily been attached to a different type of attack.

 

[The Little Raven]

Being balanced to go together does not mean that it makes sense for them to go together.

Magic doesn't always make sense. That's why it's magic.

 

[Protagonist]

Yes, I realize the game balance reasons for it. But how do you explain it in-game? If it's just a quick prayer, why can you only do it when making a specific type of attack?

the exact attack routine is a somatic component required for the prayer

or

only while doing x you can achieve the needed lucidity / state of mind / mental discipline needed for y


etc.


It certainly is less weird than throwing tiny cupcakes at s.o. so you can make them burst out in magical laughter

 

[Fifth Element]

Well, one option would be to say that the cleric's quick prayer, which is granted unto him to "smite" (not the game term) his enemies, only gives him a finite amount of divine energy.

He can split that energy between attacking and healing/buffing. So, if he chooses an attack form that drains off most of the divine energy, he only has a little left for healing/buffing, and vice versa.

That works for the balance between the relative power of the attack and the buff. But it doesn't help explain why the specific buff has to be attached to that particular attack form.

 

[Fifth Element]

It certainly is less weird than throwing tiny cupcakes at s.o. so you can make them burst out in magical laughter

The sins of previous editions, and all that.

 

[pukunui]

Magic doesn't always make sense. That's why it's magic.

Why do people always use this as a counter argument? Most magic makes perfect sense if you can make the distinction between "realistic" and "believable". Magic doesn't need to be realistic to make sense; however, for me at least, it does need to be belieavable ... The attack/buff divine powers don't make sense and therefore aren't believable. Not the way they're written anyway.