New and Different Question about Shield

[hong]

Right, but to start a grapple you gotta make a melee touch attack which provokes an AoO (right?). So the original poster is asking whether or not the shield bonus applies during an attack action which would provoke an AoO.

Assuming I have the question right, I'd rule that if someone readied an action to attack the caster as he's attacking, then no... the shield bonus doesn't apply (it 'moves out of the way'). So if the shielded caster makes an attack that provokes an AoO, his shield bonus doesn't apply.

There's nothing wrong with ruling it that way (it's your campaign, after all), but I don't think that's the intent of the spell as written. You can do a hell of a lot more with a readied action than just starting a grapple. In fact, I'd say that grappling is one of the less likely options on a readied attack -- better to hit the guy with an axe, or an arrow. If you're going to grapple, you might as well just do it, instead of using a ready action.

Furthermore, a readied attack against a casting attempt already forces a Concentration check to keep the spell up. This alone is a very good reason to ready attacks against spellcasters. Doing it the way you suggest would remove a lot of the point of the shield spell.

 

[IceBear]

Besides, just because the shield moves out of the caster's way when he attacks doesn't necessarily mean that it's out of his opponent's way too. To allow the caster to make an attack, the shield might have to slide a couple of inches to the left, but I doubt that's enough to completely negate it for the opponent.

IceBear

 

[jontherev]

From the SRD: The question is this, are there situations where the shield is facing in the right direction, but because the caster is acting the shield does not protect him from an attack. There are a couple of potential situations I'm thinking of (though I'm sure there are others):

1- Someone readies an action to attack the wizard when he casts a spell. Wizard starts casting, shield moves, Readied attack goes off against AC without shield. I can see arguments both ways

2- The Wizard Bullrushes. (I don't know why a wizard would Bullrush but work with me here) does the invisibile disk of force remain in front of him the whole time? It would seem to me that it would have to move out of the way in order for the bullrush to be successful.

I've been playing it such that shield always counts as long as it's facing the right direction regardless of what the wizard and his opponent are doing, but I got to thinking about it today and started wondering about this question.

First of all, let me explain how I think the spell works, by the rules. The shield is an invisible disc that essentially moves of its own volition. The caster is only directing its movements when he wishes to change the direction it is protecting against. The rest of the time, the shield moves on its own to ward off threats/attacks or move out of the way when the caster wishes to attack/cast a spell. Any other interpretation would have the caster concentrating on the shield the entire round, moving it to block attacks, etc. With that in mind, here are my answers.

1. The shield would not move until just before the spell was cast. It would stay around to block the readied attack and then move away just in time to allow the spell to pass unmolested. Remember, that casting a spell is USUALLY a standard action, not some instantaneous action. When you ready an attack, you would attack AS SOON AS you noticed he was starting to cast the spell. The Shield would be waiting for you. It would then move for the caster if need be. Remember that combat is fluid. Even if a caster was surrounded by enemies, the shield would function normally against it's protected direction, moving away anytime the caster attacks/casts.

2. Yes, the Shield would work against a foe you were bullrushing as long as you have it oriented correctly. That is, it would work against the AoO he gets. It would not help with the strength check. The AoO happens just before you reach your foe to push him. The Shield 'knows' when to move out of the way.

As for grappling, Shield would help against the initial melee touch attack, but not for any other grappling attacks like pinning, or even being attacked by the grappler. It could only help against other foes trying to attack you while grappled.

 

[Caliban]

I agree completely with jontherev.

 

[EOL]

Works for me.

 

[twjensen]

Well, not, actually

There's nothing wrong with ruling it that way (it's your campaign, after all), but I don't think that's the intent of the spell as written. You can do a hell of a lot more with a readied action than just starting a grapple. In fact, I'd say that grappling is one of the less likely options on a readied attack -- better to hit the guy with an axe, or an arrow. If you're going to grapple, you might as well just do it, instead of using a ready action.

Furthermore, a readied attack against a casting attempt already forces a Concentration check to keep the spell up. This alone is a very good reason to ready attacks against spellcasters. Doing it the way you suggest would remove a lot of the point of the shield spell.

The shield doesn't move out of the way if the mage casts a spell that does not require the shield to move. Therefore, the shield still has a point. I can cast an illusion, or another defensive spell, or summon a monster without my shield moving out of the way. If I try to stab someone with my knife, then my shield moves out of the way. It is in this very limited case that the rules are ambiguous.

I'd tend to want to let the shield bonus apply, but allow AoO if the wizard does anything that would normally provoke an AoO

 

[hong]

Re: Well, not, actually

The shield doesn't move out of the way if the mage casts a spell that does not require the shield to move. Therefore, the shield still has a point. I can cast an illusion, or another defensive spell, or summon a monster without my shield moving out of the way. If I try to stab someone with my knife, then my shield moves out of the way. It is in this very limited case that the rules are ambiguous.

Summoning a monster would require line of effect to where you wanted the monster to appear, no? In any case, even this could potentially cut down severely on shield's utility, if its protection was negated every time you wanted to cast a spell requiring line of effect.

 

[jontherev]

Re: Re: Well, not, actually

Summoning a monster would require line of effect to where you wanted the monster to appear, no?

I think all you need is line of sight.

In any case, even this could potentially cut down severely on shield's utility, if its protection was negated every time you wanted to cast a spell requiring line of effect.

Nope, read my last post as to why.