D&D General New Baldur's Gate III Teaser Trailer

Larian Studios posted a teaser trailer for Baldur's Gate III on Twitter, showing off both apparent cutscene and gameplay footage.

Larian Studios posted a teaser trailer for Baldur's Gate III on Twitter, showing off both apparent cutscene and gameplay footage.


The trailer ends with the statement "Join us on the road to Baldur's Gate Starting June 6" This date is the first date of the Guerrilla Collective Indie Game Showcase, taking place online from June 6-8. Larian Studios is a participant in the event and previously promised Baldur's Gate III news at the showcase. This statement lends further credence to industry speculation that the big announcement will be the date of early access, and it may hint that early access will start on June 6. But it looks like we still have another week before we know for sure.

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Darryl Mott

Darryl Mott

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
None of them played a single bit like an old school isometric rtwp game. DA2 in particular was explicitly more action-oriented.

Of course I played them all on console so that factors in, but DA:O again felt most in common to FFXII to me, which are just not rtwp.
I played all three on PC, and...yes, they played exactly like an old school rtwp game. In every single one, I’m pausing every turn to assess the field and give commands, then unpausing, unless it’s a trash fight. Just like every other rtwp game I’ve ever played. DA2 isn’t action based at all, IMO. The animations are more actiony, and that’s it. It’s KOTOR:Fantasy.
 

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Var

Explorer
I would just like to point out that RTwP is really messy and not particularly fun for some people (me!) and I am really glad that turn based has made a powerful resurgence as of late. Between BG3, Solasta and Kingmaker getting turn based, it's a veritable Renaissance.
The amount of random annoying deaths and reloads because your squishy backline can take as many hits as wet paper, combined with not having the same attention span and reaction time as my teenage self playing FPS, DotA and D2 on hardcore... oh the agony.
If you miss that disable you needed you'll take some time and figure out how to adjust in turn based. In RTWP odds are your attention was elsewhere and that's a restart from the last save.

Trying to figure out what irks me in RTWP is that they play similar to an Action RPG, you're playing the combat for executing the build you went with, big numbers on the screen and the eventual loot pinata, not because you have to figure out an actual strategy. Turn based stuff tends to cater the logical part of your brain that likes solving problems. You put much more effort into planning your actions and pay closer attention to the outcome of each individual action when it happens turn by turn.

Not quite sure if the combat system matters at all to most players walking through on story mode. They're probably here for the RPG factor or like the feeling of awesomeness that nothing can stand before your party of heroes. That will probably change little no matter the combat system. However RTWP can pretty much run on autopilot after a right click, so I guess RTWP is preferable if you're exclusively here for the RPG experience.
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
I played all three on PC, and...yes, they played exactly like an old school rtwp game. In every single one, I’m pausing every turn to assess the field and give commands, then unpausing, unless it’s a trash fight. Just like every other rtwp game I’ve ever played. DA2 isn’t action based at all, IMO. The animations are more actiony, and that’s it. It’s KOTOR:Fantasy.

DA2 has an attack button. There's no auto-attack. Am I remembering this wrong? I even played the DA2 demo on PC and I remember thinking "this is more action-y than DA:O" which I played on console.

I get that we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I think it's important to understand that there's a definite perspective, deserved or otherwise, that some (many?) to see games like Dragon Age as having a different battle system than games like Baldur's Gate. Maybe it's just the camera and the single-character-at-a-time perspective. Which to some makes no difference and to others makes a lot.

To me, Dragon Age has more in common with Final Fantasy XII than with Baldur's Gate. But then, I also never fully played them on PC and/or in tactician mode.


Actually that's not quite true, I did try tactician mode on Dragon Age: Inquisition briefly but found it completely unbearable.
 

So, would you posit that every Dragon Age game has been successful in spite of no one liking rtwp?

No DA game past Origins plays remotely like the type of RtwP found in BG, Pillars and PF. And Origins only plays remotely like it, not closely like it. This was in fact something much-discussed at the time. In reality, the characters are largely autonomous, and you need to pause vastly less often. DA:O and DA2 had particularly superb abilities to set up characters so you didn't need to pause, too.

It's really like there are couple of branches of RtwP, there's the micro-heavy, isometric branch with BG, Pillars, PF, and so on, and there's the micro-light, automation-friendly branch with DA, FFXII, and so on.
 

DA2 has an attack button. There's no auto-attack. Am I remembering this wrong? I even played the DA2 demo on PC and I remember thinking "this is more action-y than DA:O" which I played on console.

That's only true of the console version. The PC version has auto-attack.

However I strongly agree re: DA/FFXII.
 

Some of your opinions are really wild man. People loathe the pod system?

ROFL. Wow. You think I have a wild opinion, and your example is that you don't believe people loathe the pod system. How about you go anywhere where XCOM is discussed, and ask people what they think of the pod system?

Or read discussion of XCOM Chimera, or Gears Tactics, and hear all the rejoicing about it not using the pod system.

What people specifically loathe is the outright cheating, where, then the pod detects you, they get to move and reposition, for free, without missing their turn or having any kind of penalty. Even though you don't get the same if they discover you on their turn.

Seriously. You think that's a wild opinion? You're proving you have no idea what XCOM fans or turn-based-tactical game fans think. You seem like a totally massive XCOM fan, so how you don't know is staggering. You really going to sit there and pretend you haven't heard huge amounts of griping about the pods system, after mentioning stuff like Long War? Do you just not read XCOM-connected forums or something? This isn't even pot kettle black. This is pot (you) calling the candlestick black.

You also claim rolling is worse than side-based initiative. That is objectively false. Yes, you can end up with the same result. But that's the worst case scenario for rolling, and it's unlikely. It's a 50/50 chance (or thereabouts) with group initiative. So it is a logical impossibility to claim that rolling is "worse" than side-based, given that fact.

Individual passive initiative is okay, but would massively increase the value of DEX and anything which boosted your initiative, except Advantage, which would be obviated.

I haven't played a mega-ton of Chimera - I've enjoyed it, and I don't agree that there are no choices, rather that they're different choices. I personally find them more engaging them XCOM2, which at this point for me is pretty dull. Gears Tactics is also way better at doing XCOM2 than XCOM2 is. It has side-based initiative, but doesn't use the weak crutch of the pod system, and generally plays really great (I can see not buying it given how expensive it is though - I only have it because of the cheapo subscription you can get it on).
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
No DA game past Origins plays remotely like the type of RtwP found in BG, Pillars and PF. And Origins only plays remotely like it, not closely like it. This was in fact something much-discussed at the time. In reality, the characters are largely autonomous, and you need to pause vastly less often. DA:O and DA2 had particularly superb abilities to set up characters so you didn't need to pause, too.

It's really like there are couple of branches of RtwP, there's the micro-heavy, isometric branch with BG, Pillars, PF, and so on, and there's the micro-light, automation-friendly branch with DA, FFXII, and so on.
I've played much too much of both BG games and all three DA games to take this reply seriously. They play much the same, if you want them to. You can set the companions up to be more autonomous, but you don't have to, or you can set it up but only leave them to their own devices in fairly easy fights.

I've...literally played the games like this. I don't know what else to say.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
DA2 has an attack button. There's no auto-attack. Am I remembering this wrong? I even played the DA2 demo on PC and I remember thinking "this is more action-y than DA:O" which I played on console.
Apparently that existed on console, for some reason, but not on PC. On PC it plays like DA:0 with more actiony animations and a faster pace if you don't use autopause.
I get that we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I think it's important to understand that there's a definite perspective, deserved or otherwise, that some (many?) to see games like Dragon Age as having a different battle system than games like Baldur's Gate. Maybe it's just the camera and the single-character-at-a-time perspective. Which to some makes no difference and to others makes a lot.
Perhaps it's a flaw, but I have very little patience for strongly held positions that boil down to, "it may not actually be different, but it looks different, so it is different." I just can't. It doesn't make sense. There are differences from game to game, but the DA games are the same type of game as KOTOR or BG. Apperently not on console, but..well lets not make the thread about console vs pc. I think most people agree that the DA games just aren't as good on console, though.
 

Var

Explorer
ROFL. Wow. You think I have a wild opinion, and your example is that you don't believe people loathe the pod system. How about you go anywhere where XCOM is discussed, and ask people what they think of the pod system?

Or read discussion of XCOM Chimera, or Gears Tactics, and hear all the rejoicing about it not using the pod system.

What people specifically loathe is the outright cheating, where, then the pod detects you, they get to move and reposition, for free, without missing their turn or having any kind of penalty. Even though you don't get the same if they discover you on their turn.

Seriously. You think that's a wild opinion? You're proving you have no idea what XCOM fans or turn-based-tactical game fans think. You seem like a totally massive XCOM fan, so how you don't know is staggering. You really going to sit there and pretend you haven't heard huge amounts of griping about the pods system, after mentioning stuff like Long War? Do you just not read XCOM-connected forums or something? This isn't even pot kettle black. This is pot (you) calling the candlestick black.

You also claim rolling is worse than side-based initiative. That is objectively false. Yes, you can end up with the same result. But that's the worst case scenario for rolling, and it's unlikely. It's a 50/50 chance (or thereabouts) with group initiative. So it is a logical impossibility to claim that rolling is "worse" than side-based, given that fact.

Individual passive initiative is okay, but would massively increase the value of DEX and anything which boosted your initiative, except Advantage, which would be obviated.

I haven't played a mega-ton of Chimera - I've enjoyed it, and I don't agree that there are no choices, rather that they're different choices. I personally find them more engaging them XCOM2, which at this point for me is pretty dull. Gears Tactics is also way better at doing XCOM2 than XCOM2 is. It has side-based initiative, but doesn't use the weak crutch of the pod system, and generally plays really great (I can see not buying it given how expensive it is though - I only have it because of the cheapo subscription you can get it on).
Well as someone who has thoroughly enjoyed several generation of XCOM games (and Mods) as well as consumed a bunch of theoretical discussion on the games, pod mechanics came up, people are venting about it once and a while (mostly because of teleport bugs or AI clairvoiance). Worst case that has been a minor occurence compared to the usual RNG gripes from my recollection. So your blanket statements could use some less hyperbole if you want to aim to bring a point across.

I'll take artifically smart pods and actual mechanics over the usual increase in HP and damage most of the remaining designers seem to consider adequate balancing shrug

Also read again. I don't remember or intend to claim rolling is worse than side-based initiative. It accidentially can be better or worse to split the initiative, especially with AI involved. You're not thinking creative enough if you can't come up with a scenario where your Rogue is worse off going first since he won't get a sneak attack in or where it's better to wait till the other side wastes their Action on a Dash to close the gap. This correlates with my comment about save scumming, there's a massive difference in between the first try when the enemy mage got a nat20 on Initiative and fried your party with a Fireball and the second attempt when your Warlock Archer crit smites the guy to death before he gets an action. 5E mechanics can probably take this much variance, but I think the game could benefit from individual Initiative being passive/stable rather than DnD5E or DOS2 versions.
Mind you current Larian group Initiative also makes only the highest dude in the party matter. Investing a Feat into Alert to raise Initiative and then fumbling the next 3 Initiative rolls anyway is quite possible in 5E, but you'll just accept that's how the dice fell.
At this point I assume we all know enough about game psychology to know the same result isn't going to fly well In a video game, where you didn't roll a physical die with direct feedback from the other players on the third "fail". Most people end up simmering with annoyance towards that machine that's incapable to roll dice "fairly". There'll be no shortage of people claiming the RNG is rigged after their Wizard fails to make the 5th 60% DC based Spell stick, ignoring all the dice rolled in between or the amount of dice rolls total for that campaign to match that pattern against.

BG3 is a singleplayer game. I'm just gonna assume more than half the opponents are melee/have weaker ranged than melee options, can't close every fight with a single move. Passive Initiative allows for easier encounter design, as simple as that. If anything rolling for Initiative is more problematic because you can reroll fights till your 8 DEX Fighter manages to go first every fight. I'm not saying 5E should adapt that, because there is no need to. The games at our home tables are always going to be Ironman (with the DM in charge of adjusting fate... or not). BG3 will not be a home game, with D20s involved RNG discrepancy will be massive at times. Removing the randomness from passive combat components like Initiative might just be a better way to go about it in that environment. Just a hunch though, we'll see at the end of playtesting what sticks.
I also don't see the usual "DEX is so much better than STR" argument having much weight in a PC game. Pretty much disappears in a game that remembers Athletics checks are STR based and can't be handwaved away by Acrobatics, where Sneaking is going to be done solo by the sneaky party members because "do not split the party" doesn't apply and no one has to wait IRL on the Rogue finishing a solo heist. Gonna go out on a limb and claim you'll want a STR guy in your party to jump far, climb cliffs and lift heavy stuff requiring STR checks and Athletics rolls.
You'll also want a DEX guy, because this is an RPG with rolls, so you want every kind of check covered to be "optimal", which means INT is also going to be relevant when a riddle, hidden door etc is gated behind i.e. an Arcana check. The one stat I'd predict is going to be less valueable than usual is CON. Simply because you'll be able to sit back and snipe or avoid "aggro" in ways your usual DM would never let you. 10-12 CON glasscannons are probably going to be alright to get a +2 to your Perception checks on a ranged Fighter instead.
Same for Skills like Survival, Animal Handling and Performance or a proper split in between Perception and Investigation. A DM might simply forget 99% Performance exists, a Larian game is likely going to have a quota on how much each individual Skill is going to be invoked. Not all of them are going to be equal, but all of them are likely to be relevant.

Oh my, again with the blanket statements where your personal opinion supposedly equates public opinion. Chimera Squad isn't fairing so well in the numbers. GoW barely cracked 80, I'm honestly surprised they got away with that given the 4 or so actual side mission types, narrow spectrum in opponent classes and massive pricetag relative to content. Think I'm on savegame 75 or so in XCOM, Gears of War critique lists about zero replayability as one of it's major flaws, although it was fun for the 4 days or so it took to play through I don't see anything that warrants another playthrough atm. Can't say lack of enemy designspace or replayability was ever a problem in the XCOMs (and then there's War of the Chosen and the Long Wars, to make that pretty much 5 full games in terms of content).

Again, would you happen to have anything to back up your claims with?
 

A few points:

* In DOS2 most enemies use ranged attacks and spells. There are few, if any, melee only enemies. This reflects a broader encounter design point. Turn based games tend not to have "trash mob" fights. You don't want to slow the game down by going into turn based mode for any fight the player will win easily.

* BG1/2 do not have climbing or jumping. DOS2 has climbable ladders and vines, but it doesn't require skill checks, just movement points. What it will have is encumbrance - strength will be critically important for the amount of stuff you can carry. I wouldn't be surprised if we see minimum strength requirements for weapons and armour making a comeback too - the Baldur's Gate games and DOS games all have that. There reason they where (mostly) dropped from 5e - simplicity - doesn't really apply when the computer is keeping track. You will need a strong character to wear the heavy armour, swing the two handed weapons, and be a pack mule. Not to climb walls.

* I would be quite surprised if BG3 doesn't get a multiplayer mode. Again that is something all the Baldur's Gate games and DOS games have had.
 

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