New Class and Race?

[cignus_pfaccari]

I don't want the cleric to lose its melee divine leader niche just because a better class came along.

It sounds like, from admittedly this very brief look, that the runepriest is going to be more of a buffer leader than a healer leader.

I am looking forward to it, but we'll see if I'll switch my minotaur battle cleric to a runepriest.

Brad

 

[No Name]

I'm kind of worried about power creep after hearing about this. They've been doing a great job of keeping it balanced so far, but it looks like its getting worse. I don't see how it could be so hard to maintain balance, so maybe things aren't as bad as they seem.

It's just that the daily power for one sounds a lot more powerful than anything I've heard of. It's got a lot of things going for it:
* Weapon attack vs. NAD defense = accuracy
* Close blast = multiple targets
* Necrotic or radiant = versatility
* Effect until save = damage
Although the effect only lasts until a save, which usually isn't that long, that's still a good 8 to 10 extra damage, and on multiple targets. If it doesn't have a miss effect, that would be good, but I really hope it balances with other classes, particularly the cleric. I don't want the cleric to lose its melee divine leader niche just because a better class came along.

The daily power isn't close blast, it's single target. Flames of Purity is close blast. I should have put those two in separate paragraphs. I started talking about one, then switched to the other. Sorry.

I think they are all weapon powers. All of the powers (except Goring Charge) do xd10 damage, and the Minotaur uses a warhammer.

It sounds like, from admittedly this very brief look, that the runepriest is going to be more of a buffer leader than a healer leader.

Probably so. The other daily is Rune of the Undeniable Dawn. It's close burst 3 radiant damage (half damage on miss), and it creates a zone. You and your allies in the zone get +2 power bonus to defenses, and it's a minor to sustain.

To everyone, your welcome for all the thanks.

 

[Danceofmasks]

so the battlemind, even if it shifts after the enemy is no threat at all because he has already used his ONLY OPPORTUNITY action.

Umm, don't they punish with their immediate action?
Immediate and opportunity aren't the same.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don´t know, but in the post above i read that it was an opportunity action to shift and you need to be adjacent to punish...

so you use up both actions when the enemy shifts and attacks.

@warden: IIRC the warden uses an immediate action to punish. So after a shift back and then a charge which passes the warden in an adjacent square, the warden gets his regular opportunity action for someone leaving an adjacent square. (so the path is more or less blocked.

The battlemind has to make following decisions: the enemy shifts: if he is then in a position to attack an ally, you shift with him using up your opportunity action. Then the monster decides to charge "around" you to get to the wizard. You can´t use your opportunity action to punish the passing monster.

But in play it won´t be that bad, because if the monste shifts besides an ally to provoke your opportunity shift, this ally gets an opportunity attack. It only becomes a problem against a monster with reach or when the ally is someone incapable of making a worthwhile oportunity attack... but in this case there is usually noone left behind you to charge. Still a theoretcally different thing.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Heh ... I wouldn't be overly fussed if monsters tried so hard to get at the wizard.
That means you're already manipulating their behaviour, and they're still suffering the mark's penalties.

Unless it's a failbuild, most characters would have equivalent AC with the average defender after the -2.

What's more, being able to "save" the defender's immediate in order to deliberately provoke OAs can be a fair bit more efficient.
My fighter (my build, but I'm not the one playing it right now) for instance, has shield push + gauntlets of the ram.
It's fair, I swear.
Provoke OA, Fighter interrupts, push 2 into zone, finish turn, oh how about that ... it's the fighter's turn now.

(1-H + shield talent fighter is my favourite defender, obviously)

If I had to make a call based on the nigh-nonexistent battlemind info .. I'd say ... if you're counting on
1) using an at-will vs a nasty mob
2) marking then expecting them to attack someone else
3) making your win contingent on a party member getting whacked first
I'd say mind spike is mediocre.

If that there is a ball of 40 damage coming our way, I'd rather choose to boost defenses or invalidate it entirely ... 40 in/40 out < 0 in/14 out.

 

[Feralascendant]

The close blast attack is probably a weapon attack. It targets AC and is +13 to hit. All of the other powers are +13 to hit except Goring Charge.

Was Goring Charge's attack bonus higher or lower than the others?

 

[swiftshade]

No Name, could you please post Battlemind's attack powers and Psion's?

Thanks in advance

 

[WalterKovacs]

Comparing defenders:

Fighter - Attack to mark, OA stops target movement, interupt attacks or shifting with MBA

Warden - Be adjacent to mark, interupt attacks with comparable to MBA vs. Fort that also gives C/A, can also react to attack at a distance (no damage)

Paladin - Minor to mark (a single target) at a distance with maintenance required to keep it up plus Divine Sanction, auto damage when mark is broken at any range

Swordmage - Minor to mark (a single target, more with feats) at a distance without maintenance, immediate action at a distance (10 squares) which requires the target hit, then either reduces damage, teleports the target and gives C/A or teleports the swordmage and allows an MBA.

Battlemind - Minor to mark (a single target, enhanceable with a power point) at a distance (maintenance?), opportunity action to follow shifter, reaction to a hit which deals auto damage.

The fighter is able to mark multiple targets if he can attack multiple targets, a warden can mark multiple targets by being adjacent to a number. The paladin needs to use divine sanctions to get extra marks up. The swordmage has the paragon and epic tier feats to get more marks at once (in addition to some powers). The Battlemind similarly is able to mark about as well as the close burst markers, getting only one in the "normal" mark burst. Unlike the swordmage or the paladin they have to be adjacent to get to do anything (that we know of, there may be another build option).

So, they mark like a swordmage, they have to be adjacent to the target like a fighter, they deal auto damage like a paladin (but it needs to hit like a swordmage), etc. The auto damage is great because (a) it only occurs on a hit and (b) it's after the ally is hit. So, obviously it should be better than the paladin's auto damage. The fighter (and warden) get to attack either way, so they still require a hit, but it's their hit that matters (which probably won't suffer from a mark penalty) and they determine the damage as well ... there is also the benefit of potentially killing the foe before it finishes the attack. Alternatively, the swordmage's most easily comparable power (aegis of assault) requires a second hit in order to deal damage. To balance this, a swordmage can be as far as 10 squares away when this happens, and be brought to the scene immediately.

 

[Rechan]

First off, this is great, Thanks No Name.

Shardmind: I really hope these guys are Con/Int, damnit. They're all ready putting out the Wilden - a Con/Wis race.

Battlemind: Boy this class sounds fun. I'm glad to see a Con-based class, FINALLY. I also hope they've something to be sticky.

Their marking power is interesting. It has its flaws, definitely. Among other things, these guys are not tanks you want to use to battle minions.

Runepriest: COOL. I felt this is one class that was missing. It also sounds like a buffer class. So to me, it sounds like a Divine version of the Artificer. I hope this class can create "traps" - runes/glyphs on the ground that enemies can walk into to trigger ( but then, I'd like to see that for the Wizard. My own pet desire).

These classes/races: It doesn't seem to me to be reaching. A priest who deals with runes and wards is certainly a classic archetype. Typical Dwarf stuff, honestly. And the Battlemind is just the Psychic warrior. As far as the Shardmind, I'm happy WotC is moving away from Tolkein and toward the bizarre; that's how I like my fantasy.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Does the Battlemind's mark only give the standard -2 to hit? Does the mark just stick around until you mark someone else, or does it go away after some time (end of your next turn, perhaps).


Does the Battlemind follow the psion and Ardent method, where it gets a few at-wills and some Power Points but no encounter powers? Because if they built the defenderiness into a few at-will powers instead of onto the marking mechanic, then that would be pretty interesting. Could a Battlemind mark two guys, then use his at-will attack on a third guy and so be defending weakly against three guys instead of strongly against one guy?