New Class - The Knight-errant

[John Q. Mayhem]

As I said, I haven't played with one at all, trust your own experience. And listen to Nifft; he's good with mechanics. His psychic ninja class is a thing of beauty.

The thing I like about Wild Cohort is that it's a very general thing; it's not an animal empowered by nature to serve you, or a celestial being from the heavens, it's just an animal that lives and trains with you. Could you elaborate on why you don't consider it appropriate for knight-errants' horses?

 

[Nifft]

Well, now that the pressure's on to defend my street cred, here's some hopefully useful advice:

1) Drop the martial feats (Weapon Focus & Improved Crit). They don't fit with the "defender" theme. There are classes that grant Weapon Focus at first level, but they do so because those specific classes do NOT grant +1 BAB at 1st level. (BAB +1 is a pre-req for Weapon Focus & Weapon Finesse, the two most common 1st level bonus feats.) Also drop Improved Crit. Why? So that this class follows a single path, and allows players to use multi-classing to accomplish what it's supposed to accomplish.

2) Here's a cool mechanic that's been looking for a home:
Assume Burden (Su): As a standard action x/day, the character can take upon himself any harmful condition or effect affecting another creature he touches. The target creature is immediately releived of the harmful condition, while the PC makes a save against the harmful condition's original DC. Burdens that can be assumed include:
- Disease
- Poison (secondary damage)
- Curses
- Any effect that can be countered via break enchantment

(Note that the above ability would argue for a strong Will save.)

-- N

 

[Ishmayl]

Well, now that the pressure's on to defend my street cred, here's some hopefully useful advice:

1) Drop the martial feats (Weapon Focus & Improved Crit). They don't fit with the "defender" theme. There are classes that grant Weapon Focus at first level, but they do so because those specific classes do NOT grant +1 BAB at 1st level. (BAB +1 is a pre-req for Weapon Focus & Weapon Finesse, the two most common 1st level bonus feats.) Also drop Improved Crit. Why? So that this class follows a single path, and allows players to use multi-classing to accomplish what it's supposed to accomplish.

2) Here's a cool mechanic that's been looking for a home:
Assume Burden (Su): As a standard action x/day, the character can take upon himself any harmful condition or effect affecting another creature he touches. The target creature is immediately releived of the harmful condition, while the PC makes a save against the harmful condition's original DC. Burdens that can be assumed include:
- Disease
- Poison (secondary damage)
- Curses
- Any effect that can be countered via break enchantment

(Note that the above ability would argue for a strong Will save.)

-- N

Okay, I really like the Assume Burden ability, it would fit very well with the class (especially if I boost the will save like is being suggested). I could also see dropping weapon focus for the reasons you specified, but I'm not really sure about dropping Improved Crit.

If I decided to go more towards the strict defensive class (getting rid of the more martial abilities, would you recommend me throwing some healing spells/abilities in there so that he wouldn't be a complete martyr?

By the way, about the will save, what progression should i use for it if I want to boost it a bit?

(Oh, and what other classes have you done, Nifft? I'd like to see your stuff )

 

[AeroDm]

Real quick hijack: what is the name of the font in the document?

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

http://fishnet.cx/~josh/DnD/DHE/index.shtml

This is Nifft's page.

 

[Ishmayl]

Real quick hijack: what is the name of the font in the document?

The main font being used as the main text in the document is called "Calligraph421 BT"

John, thanks for that link.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Ishmayl,

I like the "protect" thing, but some questions. You state that the AC of the KNE can be "loaned" to persons who are wounded. Is it really *that* specific, or can the AC be loaned to persons who are generally in need of it, without necessarily having to be wounded? Also, when the recipient's AC improves, does the KNE's diminish? Lastly, I think it's a cool concept, but slightly weak. It starts at 2nd level with 1 point and can go as high as 5 points at 18th level?! I'd work it so that it'd be a point every two levels with no limit. Thus, 20th level would see up to 10 points being "loaned" and so on. I mean, at 18th level, who even hangs out with persons who'd benefit from a measely 5 points, ya' know?

I'm really digging the "bonding" thing. However, why the limit of two persons? If they can bond to more than one person simultaneously, why not just have a limit of one person every ten levels? It's not as if the power would be abused by all those 50th level Knight-errants running around.

I agree with John Q. Mayhem about the d12. It seems that the KNE is in a big hurry to give away his hit points. With a d12, he'll at least be that much more confident that he'll have some hps left for himself!

I'm a little hazy on the "shield of faith". The math involved is something like 2/-damage reduction. I'm not really a damage reduction expert (heck, I've yet to play 3.0!), so could you clarify for someone as ignorant as myself? Thanks!

Martyrdom I'm having difficulties with. Now, I can fully understand the KNE, after learning that a companion failed his saving throw versus a dragon's breath weapon, possessing the ability to state that, in this case, the KNE actually dove in front of the blast, thus shielding the companion and enabling an automatic save. I can understand the aforementioned scenario IF the KNE happened to be within adequate enough range of his companion, or very close to the dragon's mouth. However, I'm really not getting the 25 foot intervals thing. Is this a spell-like ability? You see, "protect" seems like a well-written mechanic as in "the KNE strategically positions himself in such a way as to lend some of his armour to his companion". Makes perfect sense, and the question of magic need never arise. However, martyrdom? I'm just not getting it.

Finally.........great presentation! There has to be about 10 classes per week posted on these boards. Some I read, others not. Some I just download and sava, yet never bother to read. But because you elected to use such an artistic medium for your class, I really found myself *wanting* to read it more than other classes that aren't so endowed. Sure, there were two or three grammatical errors and the picture should have been at the top of the second column and not the first (I started reading at the top of the second column!), but it's the thought that counts! So please, don't let mean people like Nifft put you off. Definitely stick to the fancy font & graphics presentation!

 

[Nifft]

So please, don't let mean people like Nifft put you off.

I'm evil. (Not all the juicy stuff is on my setting page... that site's for my players.)

However... it's around Hanukah, and so I can bring joy to good and evil alike.

Alright -- I'd advise that you do healing like the Psionic "Empathic Transfer", where your K-E takes damage and the subject gets HP back. To go along with this, grant the K-E some form of quicker healing -- not "Fast Healing", that's too quick for non-Epic games, but allow him to regenerate 1/2 his K-E level every hour. With a d12 hit die, he'll be fully restored within 24 hours (on average, assuming no higher than 18 Con).

-- N

 

[Ishmayl]

Ishmayl,

I like the "protect" thing, but some questions. You state that the AC of the KNE can be "loaned" to persons who are wounded. Is it really *that* specific, or can the AC be loaned to persons who are generally in need of it, without necessarily having to be wounded? Also, when the recipient's AC improves, does the KNE's diminish? Lastly, I think it's a cool concept, but slightly weak. It starts at 2nd level with 1 point and can go as high as 5 points at 18th level?! I'd work it so that it'd be a point every two levels with no limit. Thus, 20th level would see up to 10 points being "loaned" and so on. I mean, at 18th level, who even hangs out with persons who'd benefit from a measely 5 points, ya' know?

Martyrdom I'm having difficulties with. Now, I can fully understand the KNE, after learning that a companion failed his saving throw versus a dragon's breath weapon, possessing the ability to state that, in this case, the KNE actually dove in front of the blast, thus shielding the companion and enabling an automatic save. I can understand the aforementioned scenario IF the KNE happened to be within adequate enough range of his companion, or very close to the dragon's mouth. However, I'm really not getting the 25 foot intervals thing. Is this a spell-like ability? You see, "protect" seems like a well-written mechanic as in "the KNE strategically positions himself in such a way as to lend some of his armour to his companion". Makes perfect sense, and the question of magic need never arise. However, martyrdom? I'm just not getting it.

Finally.........great presentation! There has to be about 10 classes per week posted on these boards. Some I read, others not. Some I just download and sava, yet never bother to read. But because you elected to use such an artistic medium for your class, I really found myself *wanting* to read it more than other classes that aren't so endowed. Sure, there were two or three grammatical errors and the picture should have been at the top of the second column and not the first (I started reading at the top of the second column!), but it's the thought that counts! So please, don't let mean people like Nifft put you off. Definitely stick to the fancy font & graphics presentation!

Thanks for all the kind words, Tuzenbach. I'll try to address a few of your questions while I have time right now, and then will hopefully be able to address some more later.

As far as "Martyrdom" goes, the KNE does not leap the 25, 75, or 100 feet in front of the ally he is protecting. It is a supernatural ability, and if it had to be described (in fluffy terms), it would be that the KNE is drawing some of the damage to himself; and the ranges increase as he grows more powerful. So, the KNE does not have to be in front of the ally for the damage to be drawn to him, as long as he is within the range given in the ability description.

For "Protect," I agree with you that the ability should increase more, but instead of doing 1 point every 2 levels, how about 2 points every 4 levels? That way, it still ends in the same place, but he's not just gaining the same ability over and over again...

Alright -- I'd advise that you do healing like the Psionic "Empathic Transfer", where your K-E takes damage and the subject gets HP back. To go along with this, grant the K-E some form of quicker healing -- not "Fast Healing", that's too quick for non-Epic games, but allow him to regenerate 1/2 his K-E level every hour. With a d12 hit die, he'll be fully restored within 24 hours (on average, assuming no higher than 18 Con)

I love this ability! It would work extremely well with the concept of the class. I'm assuming the damage that the KNE would take would be subdual??

So, after yours and John's advice, and several other peopel I've talked to, I will be increasing his hit die to d12. Also, what rate should the will saves increase so that it's not perfect, but it's not the lowest progression?

 

[Tuzenbach]

As far as "Martyrdom" goes, the KNE does not leap the 25, 75, or 100 feet in front of the ally he is protecting. It is a supernatural ability, and if it had to be described (in fluffy terms), it would be that the KNE is drawing some of the damage to himself; and the ranges increase as he grows more powerful. So, the KNE does not have to be in front of the ally for the damage to be drawn to him, as long as he is within the range given in the ability description.

Hmmmmmm. To be honest, this seems rather "Paladin-ish" or "Cleric-y". It feels like a Divine spell-like ability, something a diety would grant to a devote follower of the faith. Seeing as how the write-up gives off a "powers derived from being good" rather than a "powers derived from worshipping a specific diety" thing, this doesn't jive well with me. I realize that it's your creation but, if/when I were to create my own KNE character I'd work it so that, yes, the KNE would have to be situated at least within a reasonable proximity between his comrade and the creature/thing doing the damage. Advances in level would determine the amount of damage the KNE would be able to "absorb" on behalf of his comrade. How about 1/3 of the KNE's hit die type per level? I.e., 4 points of damage per level (assumes a d12 for the KNE). I'm thinking that would be good. Or 6 perhaps? You see, my concern with "half the damage gets taken by the KNE" is that that amount of damage may actually KILL the KNE. However, if the amount of damage taken by the KNE is based upon a sliding scale governed by the KNE's hit points, then it would be safer for all parties concerned, as a dead KNE is of little use to anyone.

For "Protect," I agree with you that the ability should increase more, but instead of doing 1 point every 2 levels, how about 2 points every 4 levels? That way, it still ends in the same place, but he's not just gaining the same ability over and over again....

Yes, but that would mean a piddily 4 AC points all the way up to 11th level! And then from 12th to 15th level, a mere 6! Again, it's your creation. But if ever I play one, it's gunna be 1 point every 2 levels. BTW, does the KNE's AC worsen as their comrade's improves? I'm assuming yes, but please correct me if I'm mistaken.



PS: Once again, good job on the class as a whole. It's a perfect intermediary between the 1E Paladin and 1E Cavalier, yet somehow deeper than either.