D&D Movie/TV New D&D movie details? Vecna?!

[Paul Farquhar]

I think Scandinavian dark elves actually just referred to them living underground in the dark rather than necessarily being dark skinned. And depending on who is translating they were elves or dwarves. I think we are referring to the svartalfar. Not an expert on this. These seem to be vary by region and translation to me.

Was there ever really a difference? Remember that much of the world still thinks of elves as little people.

 

[Hussar]

Ah, yes, but it's not entirely obvious which came first. I don't think Loth was mentioned when drow first appeared in Against the Giants. Are Drow a matriarchy because of their spider fetish, or where they given a spider fetish because they are a matriarchy?

That is not to say that I think Gygax was sexist - but it's how things are interpreted now that matters, not the original intent.

The current issue with skin tone seems to be largely misunderstood though. I don't think it's the evilness that is the issue. It's more a case of "non-white actors have a tough enough job getting parts, without white actors "stealing" non-white characters".

What no one has mentioned yet though are the tentacle rods...

Does it matter? Is the average person going to care which came first?

The fact that your evil, man enslaving (let's not forget that part) matriarchy worships a BLACK WIDOW spider is an optic that is going to cause all sorts of issues. There are just far, far too many connections there. Perhaps the whole Black Widow (a woman who entices men to marry only to kill them for their money) isn't a concept outside of the English speaking world, but, it's certainly going to resonate within it.

 

[Coroc]

Listening to NADDPOD right now, and it has honestly made me add Creek and Field Elves as canon to my Forgotten Realms campaign... got to have me elves with a West Country and Louisiana swamp accents!

Well creek elves sounds pretty diverse to me...

Sorry for my bad British humor I just had to ...

 

[Todd Roybark]

my hopes were smacked around like a “Mommie Dearest” marathon...

No wire Hangers!

 

[ccs]

Ah, yes, but it's not entirely obvious which came first. I don't think Loth was mentioned when drow first appeared in Against the Giants. Are Drow a matriarchy because of their spider fetish, or where they given a spider fetish because they are a matriarchy?

Against the Giants was published in 1981. It's the compilation of the original Giants modules from '78.
And by that time the Drow worshiping Lolth was just as old as the Giants modules
So it may or may not have been modified/expanded upon. (I don't know, I don't have the original series or the G1-2-3 volume in my collection as I just have the '87 super-module version. And just by the page count alone I know that's modified.)

1981 is also the year the Fiend Folio was published. Lolth is presented there.
Though there is zero mention of her in the Drow entry. Only in her own entry is it mentioned that A) she enjoys appearing in the form of an exquisitely beautiful Dark Elf, B) that it's only because the Drow worship her that causes her to materialize that anything's really known of her. Lolth enjoys the company of spiders.

I don't know what was in the original modules, but I'm going to guess that the Matriarchy came 1st as the Fiend Folio only notes that the females have higher lv caps than the males.

The current issue with skin tone seems to be largely misunderstood though. I don't think it's the evilness that is the issue. It's more a case of "non-white actors have a tough enough job getting parts, without white actors "stealing" non-white characters".

It's (essentially) a *&# non-human alien! Anyone can play it. And no matter how non-white the person, they'll NEVER be black enough to be a proper looking Drow. Wich makes it perfect for CGI.

And your wrong. The moronic argument against putting evil black elves in a D&D movie is that ignorant people will say "OMG, they made the alien bad guy BLACK. That means that they're saying all black people here in the real world are evil!" .....

What no one has mentioned yet though are the tentacle rods...

I think the tentacle rods are because:
"Hall" also introduces EHP'SS Eclavdra, a drow priestess. The funky abbreviation stands for "Evil High Priest('ess)". She reappears in D3: "Vault of the Drow" (1978), which also reveals her familial name, Eilservs. Eclavdra has been a major recurring villain over the years and also appeared in Gygax's Gord novels. She appropriately makes an appearance in the Against the Giants novel (1999), where she's killed.

Finally, "Hall" offers more hints about the Elder Elemental God, who was first alluded to in G1: "Steading of the Hill Giant Chief". This time around, the strange god is featured in the "Temple of the Eye", on level 2 of the Hall. Again, there aren't a lot of details. The Lovecraftian tentacles and insanity recur, while a big glowing eye appears for the first time. D3: "Vault of the Drow" would finally reveal that this Temple (and presumably the one in "Steading") was a "Temple of the Eye of the Elder Elemental God", a god worshiped by the Eilservs, who would largely disappear from D&D lore after the initial appearances in the "G" and "D" adventures."
Clipped from Drive Thru RPG synopsis of Hall of the Fire Giant King.
If Gygax had originally been envisioning a Lovecraftian theme for his Drow, or at least Eclavdra, this item fits quite well.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The fact that your evil, man enslaving (let's not forget that part) matriarchy worships a BLACK WIDOW spider is an optic that is going to cause all sorts of issues.

It's a movie, there won't be time to go into the details of drow society and religion, even if you wanted to. All you will see on screen is a bunch of generic fantasy mooks (possibly) lead by a female villain. That won't have any connotations that aren't shared with any film with a female villain, e.g. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Does it matter? Is the average person going to care which came first?

The fact that your evil, man enslaving (let's not forget that part) matriarchy worships a BLACK WIDOW spider is an optic that is going to cause all sorts of issues. There are just far, far too many connections there. Perhaps the whole Black Widow (a woman who entices men to marry only to kill them for their money) isn't a concept outside of the English speaking world, but, it's certainly going to resonate within it.

Its a purple widow

 

[dave2008]

Ive mostly just though it generally refered to elves "in the dark", "of the dark", or "from the dark", tbh. Not really dark skin. ALTHOUGH dark skin would make sense. Camoflage. If "sighted" creatures and biolumineacence is something they will often fi d themselves aroud, which, in the under dark, is a thing.

Except of course most RL creatures of the dark mostly lack pigment and are nearly white.

 

[Undrave]

"Hall" also introduces EHP'SS Eclavdra, a drow priestess. The funky abbreviation stands for "Evil High Priest('ess)". She reappears in D3: "Vault of the Drow" (1978), which also reveals her familial name, Eilservs. Eclavdra has been a major recurring villain over the years and also appeared in Gygax's Gord novels. She appropriately makes an appearance in the Against the Giants novel (1999), where she's killed.

Finally, "Hall" offers more hints about the Elder Elemental God, who was first alluded to in G1: "Steading of the Hill Giant Chief". This time around, the strange god is featured in the "Temple of the Eye", on level 2 of the Hall. Again, there aren't a lot of details. The Lovecraftian tentacles and insanity recur, while a big glowing eye appears for the first time. D3: "Vault of the Drow" would finally reveal that this Temple (and presumably the one in "Steading") was a "Temple of the Eye of the Elder Elemental God", a god worshiped by the Eilservs, who would largely disappear from D&D lore after the initial appearances in the "G" and "D" adventures."

Isn't that Tharizdun? He was in the 4e DMG, but NOT the 4e PHB, like a secret god that no one is supposed to know about...

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Except of course most RL creatures of the dark mostly lack pigment and are nearly white.

Im well aware. But the underdark isnt like RL caves. Its filled with dim light and semi frequent surface interlopers with normal vision.

Completely dfferent adaptive pressure.