D&D 5E New D&D Next Packet Is Available

[Li Shenron]

I don't really see at first blush where they could simplify further without breaking stuff.

One possibility (for character complexity) would be to rethink whether one class' own special features really represent different things, and if not then merge them together.

For example, Cleric's spells and energy channeling are conceptually very similar, they both represent magical/supernatural powers granted by her deity. Furthermore, they both work on a daily basis, they both scale by character level, they both depend on the chosen faith... so why couldn't they be the same class feature? That would mean one thing to track/manage instead of two.

But for in-game mechanics, I think the game is almost as simple as it can be... at least combat. For a beginner's group, the DM and player can simply ignore every combat action besides the 4-5 most basic ones, but the combat structure and action economy really is very simple already. And for tasks/skills, the resolution mechanic itself is supersimple and very "narrative" in nature.

 

[gyor]

Two resources to keep track of. Get two bowls, stick something different in each. Say one has pretzels and the other pieces of numbered paper. Put in pretzels equal to his channel divinity and in the other pieces of paper with numbers on them equal to the spell level slots his

If you made it any easier he'd have to be dead not to get it.

As for Channel Divinity and Spells the same, they're not. Spells comes from the universal nature of the Gods and are simular if more religious to wizard spells. Divine Spells aren't the raw essence of a God, its just tla gift from your God. Channel divinity is the raw essense of your God channeled through you, its a far more intimate experience. One does not cast Channel Divinity powers, and they do not suffer from the disadvantages of spells.

 

[GX.Sigma]

As for Channel Divinity and Spells the same, they're not. Spells comes from the universal nature of the Gods and are simular if more religious to wizard spells. Divine Spells aren't the raw essence of a God, its just tla gift from your God. Channel divinity is the raw essense of your God channeled through you, its a far more intimate experience. One does not cast Channel Divinity powers, and they do not suffer from the disadvantages of spells.

Yes, that's how they're defined currently, but that's not how they have to be defined.

The current mechanics say "twice per day, you can do one of these three things" and "once per day, you can do one of these three other things." It's two separate buckets that do almost exactly the same thing.

So why not just say "three times per day, you can do one of these six things"?

 

[Klaus]

Yes, that's how they're defined currently, but that's not how they have to be defined.

The current mechanics say "twice per day, you can do one of these three things" and "once per day, you can do one of these three other things." It's two separate buckets that do almost exactly the same thing.

So why not just say "three times per day, you can do one of these six things"?

That may be how it starts, but in a while it becomes "five times per day, you can do one of these three things, and 20 times per day, you can do these 21 other things, depending on level".

 

[GX.Sigma]

That may be how it starts, but in a while it becomes "five times per day, you can do one of these three things, and 20 times per day, you can do these 21 other things, depending on level".

Exactly--spell slots are complicated enough, we don't need to add an extra thing. If we make channel divinity into a special kind of spell slot ("domain slot?"), it would pretty much work the same as it does now, but be easier to understand and remember.

 

[Klaus]

Exactly--spell slots are complicated enough, we don't need to add an extra thing. If we make channel divinity into a special kind of spell slot ("domain slot?"), it would pretty much work the same as it does now, but be easier to understand and remember.

And then we're back to the 4e cleric, where all abilities were powers and obeyed the same structure.

 

[keterys]

Hmm, except the 4e cleric had healing words, channel divinity, at-will, encounter, and daily powers, for five different buckets (4 if you ignore the at-wills)

 

[GX.Sigma]

And then we're back to the 4e cleric, where all abilities were powers and obeyed the same structure.

The 4e cleric actually had the exact same problem, where Channel Divinity powers didn't work like other encounter powers.

 

[Gorgoroth]

I detested my paladin's channel divinity. When I first made him I took some feat to give me another encounter power using it, then I realized that it was a feat that competed for both a single encounter AND a daily slot, and strained my patience as I realized that lay on hands was simply a better use of that. (or whatever the other one was). So annoying. Just so many things that could have been way cooler but in the end, were trap options. I retrained my feat at level 3 when I realized I hadn't used CD for the new power, and that I had no interest in doing so. When I changed into a hybrid ranger | paladin, same thing...I eventually realized that the paladin side was a complete waste, and instead make him a ranger|warlord refluffed as a paladin, since I took a lot of healing and defensive reaction type powers. Ask yourself, does anyone ever play a hybrid paladin and take the hybrid talent option for channel divinity? It was garbage option, especially after they nerfed practically every decent use thereof. They killed that auto-crit option, just to make me re-work my guy as a ranger, who ended up having a nova capability that was through the roof more powerful. Instead of 1-3 times per day being able to crit on a hit on command, vying for lay on hands uses, which were in turn frankly very poor compared to a warlord's inspiring word, made me realize what an utter fail that class was, compared to the other options.

Most CD options were utterly useless, and then you'd take a feat for a new encounter power that draws from the same slots? Gee, that sucks. The equivalent to that would be requiring a wizard to spend a feat for every new spell he learned.

I'll read the CD rules in 'Next, I think it's a good thing to have, a separate pool of resources, but I prefer spontaneous casting -> CD powers or healing. Letting your spell slots fuel your CD uses would be a decent solution to simplify things. Then your CD strength/potency could be determined by the spell level of the slot you consumed, similar to the way Sleep / Cure Wounds spells now scale.

 

[jhunton]

I was just re-reading the 2e Player's Handbook, and damn, that thing was complex! The myriad modifiers and micro-systems made my head hurt!

what do,s that mean. can you explain ?