D&D 5E New D&D Next Playtest package is up (19/9/2013) [merged threads]

[MoonSong]

I wonder how many people here had bachelor degrees in medicine, art, theology, and played pro-sports all before they were 30...

That is strawmanning, I'm not advocating for the removal of ASPR for multiclassing because I strictly support endless dipping (I do support the idea of piecing together a "custom" class from levels in different ones if it suits your character concept though). what I'm advocating for is to be unrestricted on the ability to change the career of my character when it makes sense without having to worry if I put the right amount of +2s and +1s during character creation. And like I said endless dipping is still possible given the current ASPR.

[And besides the point one of my closest friends has a bachelor degree on high arts - he has an awesome musical ear and plays many musical instruments- and is about to earn a second one in engineering, knows some high cuisine, is a gifted athlete on at least three different sports, is fluent in three languages, directs a local theater group and is a very capable salesman.
Me on the other side, I have less achievements, only have a degree on graphic arts, but also I have a greater understanding of physics, math and electronics than the average designer -not to mention the average person-, while a little rusty I can still design and build electronic circuits and digital systems, and am well informed on many wildly different topics, while hardly an expert of any of them, they don't result alien to me at all, be it biology, chemistry, economics, politics, history -I'm a big history buff- some actual philosophy or psychology. If I wanted it I could easily get a degree on accounting, psychology or engineering in a short time. (Oh and I make plushies and muppets too, last year I also sewed a pair of sweaters for my dog). None of us is even close to thirty, I know you asked for some actual overachievers, but first level into a class is still apprentice level]

 

[variant]

Further Impressions

So I've noticed some major flaws with the multiclass system. The first one is that due to the proficiency system, there is no reason not to multiclass, especially one level into the Fighter. The Fighter gives you proficiency in armor, shields, martial weapons, a skill, and Strength and Constitution saving throws. A continually rising bonus on the weapons, skill and saving throws, plus other benefits the fighter gets at 1st level is well worth that single level.

Another flaw is that the multiclassing system allows a Mage with one level in Fighter with an 8 Strength by taking the Fighter class first. If you take the Mage level first, you wouldn't be able to do that due to the multiclassing requirements.

Another major flaw of the proficiency system is that a high level character newly obtaining a proficiency has a higher bonus than a low level character who has been training in the proficiency for much longer. Between this issue and the issue that crops up with multiclassing, I think proficiency needs to provide a static low bonus to check roles similar to the old skill system from earlier packets which was +3. Multiclassing should also only ever provide a single proficiency obtained for taking a single level in another class.

 

[Kobold Stew]

The Fighter gives you proficiency in armor, shields, martial weapons, a skill, and Strength and Constitution saving throws. A continually rising bonus on the weapons, skill and saving throws, plus other benefits the fighter gets at 1st level is well worth that single level.

This is a problem.

 

[Kobold Stew]

(oops)

 

[silverblade56]

"Entitlement?" I prefer "choice". Or was I the only one that got frustrated by having to roll well to play what you wanted in 2E, or liked playing a stealthy roguish character but hated that he was terrible in combat? I am still not satisfied that it's impossible to make something like a monk/sorcerer that isn't so mechanically gimped as to be near useless in 3.5/Pathfinder that it is pointless to even try. I am not talking about gaming the system to make an uber character like pun-pun. I am talking about something like making a thematic character like monk of the dark moon (monk/sorcerers dedicated to Shar in FR) and not having it be as bad as an NPC class.

 

[Klaus]

Further Impressions

So I've noticed some major flaws with the multiclass system. The first one is that due to the proficiency system, there is no reason not to multiclass, especially one level into the Fighter. The Fighter gives you proficiency in armor, shields, martial weapons, a skill, and Strength and Constitution saving throws. A continually rising bonus on the weapons, skill and saving throws, plus other benefits the fighter gets at 1st level is well worth that single level.

Another flaw is that the multiclassing system allows a Mage with one level in Fighter with an 8 Strength by taking the Fighter class first. If you take the Mage level first, you wouldn't be able to do that due to the multiclassing requirements.

Another major flaw of the proficiency system is that a high level character newly obtaining a proficiency has a higher bonus than a low level character who has been training in the proficiency for much longer. Between this issue and the issue that crops up with multiclassing, I think proficiency needs to provide a static low bonus to check roles similar to the old skill system from earlier packets which was +3. Multiclassing should also only ever provide a single proficiency obtained for taking a single level in another class.

I agree. I'd rather say that when you multiclass into a new class, you get to choose two of the class' proficiency categories (weapon, armor, tools, skills, saving throws).

 

[tuxgeo]

I agree. I'd rather say that when you multiclass into a new class, you get to choose two of the class' proficiency categories (weapon, armor, tools, skills, saving throws).

I concur. (Sadly, cannot give Klaus XP again yet.)

However, I doubt they'll do that since they seem to be stuck on actually using the 3E mechanic for multi-classing.

 

[gyor]

A Monk Sorceror should actually be very do able when we actually get the Sorceror. If I waw going to build a Monk of the Dark Moon, you could go Monk/Mage(wizard) for now and refluff, but honestly the smart move would be to just go straight Monk and take arcane iniatate feat and the other feats that give more spells, choose Wisdom as your casting stat as its important for Monks to have anyway, and you have a hand full of spells you can cast using a stat your good with and you can cast two level 0 cantrip spells like ray of frost at will. Personally I'd choose for spells stuff like mirror illusion, haste, but go blaster with your cantrips. You don't have to momorize anything.

Your also an awesome monk with full progression getting all of the monks abilities.

 

[gyor]

I've seen some people complain that battle magic is weak because of the Bard's spell list, but that seems silly to me, getting to make two attacks enhanced with call to battle performance, then cast Sonic Blast on top of that as a swift action, or cure light wounds, or dominate person, or freaking raise dead is really powerful.

I've also seen people complain that smite and its spell verisons is weak,they are not taking into account that it is a swift spell that can be combined with the Paladin's potent melee combat abilities. Take Thunderous Smite in a 5th level slot it does 6d6 thunder damage knocks the target 10 feet and prone, that's on top of 2 weapon attacks or three with two weapon fighting with 1d8 damage on each, strength and dex damage on both, and if one cast Aura of Vitality you heal everyone in your Aura for 1d6 damage at the same time. If the Ranger cast Spike Growth that's even more pain for the target.

So yeah the Smites are very powerful.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I concur. (Sadly, cannot give Klaus XP again yet.)

However, I doubt they'll do that since they seem to be stuck on actually using the 3E mechanic for multi-classing.

I gave him XP for you.