New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Geron Raveneye]

No, I'm afraid not. They've just been throwing darts at a board and picking the feats that way.

Uh-oh, it's a good sign that this forum has gone far down the bad path when the official Board Optimist starts handing out sarcastic comments without even a smilie attached.

 

[rkwoodard]

Does not seem fluid

Hi,
I love the flavor of the intent (As I am getting), Paladin's using Aura's and Divine energy to do stuff. Cool.

But, it just does not seem fluid. I am getting the books and will try them out, but I am not seeing the simpification of the system.


--I think I see why. 3ed was never that complicated cause my group never did the high level, super-buffs, spiffy type moves. We always kinda keep to the simple stuff and low mid levels.--

The way this is reading (and I hate I am bring this up) is like a Magic the Gathering type thing.

I think I am going to like the 4th edition Minis game as a wargame. But I don't know if I will like the RPG as much. I am getting concerned over my ability to immerse myself with these types of Mechanics.

RK

 

[MerricB]

Uh-oh, it's a good sign that this forum has gone far down the bad path when the official Board Optimist starts handing out sarcastic comments without even a smilie attached.

You can always tell when I'm feeling irritable when my trademark "Cheers!" disappears.

Seriously, KingCrab? We're talking about Wizards of the Coast. This is the company that cares an awful lot about game mechanics. We've seen a 4e playtest report where something has been discarded because it was a no-brainer choice - it was so good, it overshadowed all the other options.

Their mechanical understanding of the game is far, far superior to what it was during 3e design, and they're also playtesting a lot.

I expect this edition will have a mechanical coherence that we haven't seen before.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

I think I am going to like the 4th edition Minis game as a wargame. But I don't know if I will like the RPG as much. I am getting concerned over my ability to immerse myself with these types of Mechanics.

I understand your concern, but I don't think we'll have to worry. When you come down to it, the mechanics of all the editions of D&D have often gone against the role-playing/storytelling aspects.

The basic change is likely to be that "help others" kind of mechanics will now be part of "kill enemy" mechanics. So, you don't cast bless anymore - you make an attack and also get the effect of bless.

Meanwhile, wizards will still cast fireballs, and fighters will still hit things with swords. They're just removing the problem of a character spending an action purely to help someone else have fun.

Cheers!

 

[rkwoodard]

as long as

I understand your concern, but I don't think we'll have to worry. When you come down to it, the mechanics of all the editions of D&D have often gone against the role-playing/storytelling aspects.

The basic change is likely to be that "help others" kind of mechanics will now be part of "kill enemy" mechanics. So, you don't cast bless anymore - you make an attack and also get the effect of bless.

Meanwhile, wizards will still cast fireballs, and fighters will still hit things with swords. They're just removing the problem of a character spending an action purely to help someone else have fun.

Cheers!

It could be cool. I have always liked the concept of using divine energy in multiple ways. I have just never thought of doing multiple things at the same time. I think also my concerns are founded upon my group. If they can turn something into a joke or snide comment at the table it is over and done with.


RK

 

[MerricB]

It could be cool. I have always liked the concept of using divine energy in multiple ways. I have just never thought of doing multiple things at the same time. I think also my concerns are founded upon my group. If they can turn something into a joke or snide comment at the table it is over and done with.

Ah, yes - the best laid rules do have to make it past your group...

In fact, for the last few weeks, I've been DMing a Cleric/Crusader, which is pretty close to how the paladin smites will work. (Except the 4e mechanics look a lot cleaner and better). The idea of having Attack + Effect has been really, really appreciated by the player in question. It works very nicely.

You also get interesting choices as to which effect to use. Do you do the attack which also heals, the attack which does +2d6 damage, or the attack that gives everyone +4 to attack for one turn?

Of course, the Bo9S effects rely on the crusader successfully hitting... that the paladin smite secondary effects work even on a miss? Brilliance. It'll work really, really well at the game table, and I might even make adjustments to the mechanics in my current game.

Cheers!

 

[Doug McCrae]

Uh-oh, it's a good sign that this forum has gone far down the bad path when the official Board Optimist starts handing out sarcastic comments without even a smilie attached.

Yeah. Then cats and dogs will be cohabiting and we all know what happens after that.

 

[Henry]

Yeah. Then cats and dogs will be cohabiting and we all know what happens after that.

Mass Hysteria! (And Cogs and Puttens!)

 

[neceros]

Then why not let the paladin heal and protect things as swift actions?

Because his divine dogma requires that he fights for his cause. He attacks in order to get the bonuses: it's his somatic component.

My problem with the smites isn't tied to the crunch... it's tied to the narrowness of it.

I'd be fine with these smites as a class ability, generally speaking, except for the fact that it only applies to three or so gods in a vast pantheon. For paladins who supposedly aren't tied to the lawful good alignment anymore, it still sticks pretty resolutely to the lawful and good axis.

• That other guy is a paladin of Bahamut. He's a protector of law and order, of justice and the scourge of evil. He smites his foes while protecting or healing his allies.
  
• I'm playing a paladin of Kord, let's say. He's the dragonslayer, a champion of martial strength, and as a holy warrior of his temple I... smite my foes while protecting or healing my allies.

I was kind of hoping smites would be a flexible, variable feature. I hope we can build our characters with or without some of these features, especially if they're all going to stick so closely to the 'archetypical' class.

Understandable. However, the PHB will say "Paladins are Lawful or Good." and leave it at that. The DMG will have rules on making the Paladins Evil or Chaotic. Paladins are meant to be good in nature, but they know people will want to stray sometimes.

Ugh. More per encounter abilities.
More and more not to like.

That killed any indication it was going to be good.
I keep looking for a reason to in any way support 4e. Keep coming up short.
Why do I bother?

I'm not sure why balancing battles on the encounter level is a bad thing? Last time I played a wizard I gave him up because he was boring. I don't really like running out of normal spells after 2 fights.
It will be balanced per fight, I assure you. Having unlimited of a resource after the day is over isn't going to unbalance anything, because the monsters will also have them.

I don't like the mechanics of how these smites work. I hit you, so my friend's sucking gut wound immediately heals up. What? This is too ridiculous for me to stomach. I think I'll pass on 4th edition.

Like so many before you have mentioned they are only separate so long as you just look at straight mechanics. When "The paladin's divine patron instills his ally a boost of spirit due to your striking of his favored enemy" is added to the power it doesn't look so separate, does it?

When people complain that fluff is crowding their books, Wizards releases fluff-free information. When they released fluff-free info, people complain that it's too mechanic and gamest in design.

..."A paladin can call on divine power to aid her allies, and has learned to channel some of that power into a melee attack at the same time. Lacking the scholarship of a cleric, their selection of effects is much more limited--but that attack sure hurts when it lands."

Feel free to think of your additive when you see the ability from now on. No body will think less of you.

Sometimes, I swear.

 

[Skaven_13]

Originally Posted by DreamChaser
If it was smite for extra damage and grant your ally +4 bonus to open locks, then I'd be concerned.

Shhh. Not too loud. Some of the smites may not yet be written and they can use that.

Geez, did you see how hard he just hit that guy? I better unlock this door before he does the same to me (click).