New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Stalker0]

Wizard: Ouch, that archer up in the tree way over there is shooting at me with arrows! Hey, defender, a little help!
Paladin: Well, um, you see, I can't really invoke my remaining divine power to defend you, because in order to defend you, I have to attack something.
Wizard: What are you talking about? You have enough divine inspiration left that will allow you to defend me, but only while you're attacking something?
Paladin: My god works in mysterious ways.
Wizard: So, I'm guessing it's a no go with protection from that dragon that's flying towards us?
Paladin: You know the drill, not unless he gets within range of my sword.

Or maybe, the paladin can simply say: "Alright I'm going to use my smite, but I'm not going to attack anything, I'll use up a smite but can I just get the AC bonus?"

Dm: "Sure"

We don't know that you HAVE to attack a creature to gain the bonus, we just know that's part of the smite. Similar to how with defensive fighting you don't actually have to attack anything, you just have to give up your attack action.

 

[neceros]

Or maybe, the paladin can simply say: "Alright I'm going to use my smite, but I'm not going to attack anything, I'll use up a smite but can I just get the AC bonus?"

Dm: "Sure"

We don't know that you HAVE to attack a creature to gain the bonus, we just know that's part of the smite. Similar to how with defensive fighting you don't actually have to attack anything, you just have to give up your attack action.

Well, to be fair if you aren't attacking it'd be better to use Full Defense to gain more AC.

In regard to your first statement, obviously I can't say for certain, but if we're taking Bo9S as a big assuming role model, then I'm sure you will have to actually strike.

None-the-less, I have no doubt that the paladin will receive abilities to aid his party members without requiring him to smite. Guys, these are just 3 of his abilities. These are smites: powers designed to hurt his opponents fore-most. The secondary benefit is a great help that shows his divine touch and sets him apart from his Fighter brethren. Consider that he will most likely have powers that actually aid without requiring an attack, and powers to aid in AC and defenses since he is a divine assistant.

Keep it in context and you'll understand their goal with designing these abilities: One pea in a big pod of power.

 

[Badkarmaboy]

Or maybe, the paladin can simply say: "Alright I'm going to use my smite, but I'm not going to attack anything, I'll use up a smite but can I just get the AC bonus?"

Dm: "Sure"

We don't know that you HAVE to attack a creature to gain the bonus, we just know that's part of the smite. Similar to how with defensive fighting you don't actually have to attack anything, you just have to give up your attack action.

In looking at the smite descriptions, they ARE attacks. Fighting defensively is not the same type of thing.

 

[Skaven_13]

A Smite is not every time the pally swings his sword, this is a special, focused attack graced with divine energy. Why wouldn't there be more of an effect than straight damage? The paladin calls out his foe for divine judgement. The act of smiting is sacred, a ritual, a prayer. The paladin of Bahamut, the protector, lends the Platinum dragons protection to an ally when he smites. A paladin of Pelor, the healer, mends wounds of his comrades when he invokes the Sun god's might. It fits the theme of the divine warrior much better than psuedo-Vancian prayers.

Maybe this is where most people are having issues. I see smite as the paladin asking his god for assistance in slaying his enemy. The paladin might have a need behind asking his god for assitance, such as protecting his wounded friend, or demoralizing the enemy to protect the innocents, but the assistance is in slaying his enemy.

I'm not even against secondary affects that force the paladin's target to focus on the paladin, or rallying allies (which is really removing fear effects, not healing). But if you want to start flavoring the secondary effects based on the gods portfolio, then limit the paladin's spellcasting to only domain spells, or make paladin domains that reflect the god.

 

[neceros]

Maybe this is where most people are having issues. I see smite as the paladin asking his god for assistance in slaying his enemy. The paladin might have a need behind asking his god for assitance, such as protecting his wounded friend, or demoralizing the enemy to protect the innocents, but the assistance is in slaying his enemy.

I don't quite understand this thinking pattern.

These smites are, indeed, slaying the paladin's enemies. It seems they do this fairly well, being twice normal weapon damage. However, remember that a Paladin's role in a party is to help defend his comrades. To this point paladin smites have been given helpful additions.

If you were being smitten wouldn't you want to kill the person that's smacking the hell out of you while, at the same time, healing her friend?

 

[Nine Hands]

Okay, pulled up the WotC forum post with the Spined Devil stats...



Taking the theory that BAB increases at +1 per 2 levels, Spiney here should have a BAB of +3. His melee attacks have a +6 to hit and +4 to damage (same as what a 19 strength would give). Possibile explanations for the +6 to hit:

- +4 from Str bonus, +2 kicker from being a skirmisher.

His Spine Rain is a +9 Dex attack that does 1d6 + 2 (plus fire & poison) damage. Interestingly, his 3e Dex bonus would be +2. Coincidence? As for the +9 to hit, again, taking out the +3 from level, we have to hit +6. My speculation:

+2 from Dex bonus, +4 kicker from being a skirmisher.

It's possible there's a to-hit penalty from fighting with two weapons, but I don't think so. What do people think of the notion that a "Dex attack" uses the Dex bonus for damage? Plausible? Cheesy?

Any other observations based on revisiting these stats?

I wonder if the kicker (based on class), differs for each ability score.

So Fighter might be +2 STR, +1 CON, +1 DEX, +0 to WIS, INT, and CHA.

Just a wild guess.

 

[Skaven_13]

Here's a thought: if normal spell-casting for paladins has evolved into this (and other abilities we haven't seen yet), what has the spell-casting ranger evolved into?

Well, being a dissenting voice in the forum...I'm thinking he will be able to cast two spells when he swings both weapons in his two weapon fighting style....

or, whenever he traps an animal, all non-allies in 30ft are affected by a 2d6 furry animal damage

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

<snip>
Seriously, KingCrab? We're talking about Wizards of the Coast. This is the company that cares an awful lot about game mechanics. <snip>

Wow, I haven't laughed that hard in a long long time. THAT is funny.

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

Kheti : The whole system is based on at will/per encounter/per day now, so if that's a deal breaker for you, you are probably out of luck.

I figured maybe some abilities would be in this awful vein, but all of them? Per Encounter? What a miserable, terrible idea.

I was so hoping to keep participating in RPGA events too in Living FR. :\

 

[Skaven_13]

I don't quite understand this thinking pattern.

These smites are, indeed, slaying the paladin's enemies. It seems they do this fairly well, being twice normal weapon damage. However, remember that a Paladin's role in a party is to help defend his comrades. To this point paladin smites have been given helpful additions.

If you were being smitten wouldn't you want to kill the person that's smacking the hell out of you while, at the same time, healing her friend?

First, if someone is beating the hell out of me, then my friend is the least of my worries. I am defending them by absorbing the damage that might have otherwise gone to them. I would like to be returning damage. This allows my friend the time to heal themselves and get back into the fight.

But this goes back to my original thought: I can't justify, to myself, that this power can "bleed through" as a healing affect to allies. I could see my allies becoming inspired, or my enemies intimidated, with the fact that I wield divine power, but inspirational healing just doesn't sit well with me. I could even see if the divine power gave secondary affects to the paladin, and healing would be okay to me in this instance,.

So the breakdown is due to my personal view of smite and how it differs from your personal view of smite.