New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Sir Brennen]

Not at all. I'm not saying the paladin should be of no use to his fellow party members, nor that he has never had support abilities. Paladins can and should help allies. However it shouldn't be their main purpose. They're not bards. Or at least they weren't.

And I don't see that they are becoming support characters. Smite is only one class ability, which appears as if it will have many other versions as well. And the Epic level smite seems particularly holy warriorish: "Face me, foul miscreant!"

Plus, smites .... well... smite. This particular ability still allows the paladin to lay the hurt down on his enemies. It's still an offensive martial power at its core.

 

[Montague68]

And I don't see that they are becoming support characters. Smite is only one class ability, which appears as if it will have many other versions as well. And the Epic level smite seems particularly holy warriorish: "Face me, foul miscreant!"

Plus, smites .... well... smite. This particular ability still allows the paladin to lay the hurt down on his enemies. It's still an offensive martial power at its core.

I admit I like the epic smite ability. As you said, very holy warriorish even though as a rule I don't like "taunt" abilities in my PnP.

There are many other smites available? Well then perhaps I'm a bit premature.

My discomfort stems from the obvious convergence with online RPG-style mechanics. In those types of games, paladins are strictly healing/support for the most part and I loathe those representations of "paladins" with every ounce of my being. The paladin becoming a walking first-aid/buff station due to "balance" issues is my greatest fear for 4th Ed. and these smites were setting off alarm bells.

I'll wait and see what other options are available.

 

[The Little Raven]

I fully agree with Celtavian. It's as if the designers have spent their time hanging out on the WoW paladin boards looking for ideas.

Well, they must not have gotten many ideas since the WoW paladin doesn't have smites that heal eachother.

It's not the game mechanics that have players flocking to MMORPG's. It's the convenience of sitting down at your computer (pantsless, if you wish) and hanging out with friends while you slay baddies over and over and over. Kill, loot, ding, gratz. It's instant gratification.

Not true. MMOs existed for a decade before WoW, yet they never reached mainstream popularity until one with the right mechanics and gameplay balance came along.

He is a holy warrior, infused with power by his god to wage war on evil and defend the faith. However, instead of granting his holy warriors the ability to strike down the wicked, Torm is granting them the ability to more easily find groups. Huzzah...

So keeping himself and his allies alive doesn't serve his deity's cause? Dealing double damage with a smite isn't the ability to strike down the wicked?

 

[The Little Raven]

As you said, very holy warriorish even though as a rule I don't like "taunt" abilities in my PnP.

So, I take if you've never liked or used the confusion spell from any edition of D&D, since one of it's random actions is "attack the caster," which is exactly the same as this "taunt" effect.

 

[Counterspin]

Not to be hostile, but could you tell us which online RPG you're referring to? It'd be helpful if people told us what they're actually talking about rather than throwing out "it comes from computer games."

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I see these smites as being somewhat difficult to implement in a D&D based Videogame that's real-time like Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights (assuming that Obsidian does get to develop a 4e CRPG). The 1 round benefit doesn't do much for what's roughly 6 seconds, it'll work if the videogame was turn-based, but doesn't seem to add much for a real-time experience. Now I guess a player of a paladin PC could have have 2 targets set-up when using a smite, 1 to benefit from the secondary attacks, and another as receive the end of the smite. But already it's a little complicated to implement in such a videogame.

 

[Montague68]

Well, they must not have gotten many ideas since the WoW paladin doesn't have smites that heal eachother.

Not true. MMOs existed for a decade before WoW, yet they never reached mainstream popularity until one with the right mechanics and gameplay balance came along.

So keeping himself and his allies alive doesn't serve his deity's cause? Dealing double damage with a smite isn't the ability to strike down the wicked?

Judgment of Light. Not exactly the same thing, but similar effect.

Wow's popularity is due to easy levelling, casual friendly gameplay, an extremely smooth combat system (relative to other mmo's), and a highly polished world. Not mechanics and game balance.

See my post above as to my concerns. The mechanic itself is fine.

 

[Montague68]

Not to be hostile, but could you tell us which online RPG you're referring to? It'd be helpful if people told us what they're actually talking about rather than throwing out "it comes from computer games."

World of Warcraft specifically. WoW paladins are notoriously weak unless they are healing and supporting a group.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

I see these smites as being somewhat difficult to implement in a D&D based Videogame that's real-time like Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights (assuming that Obsidian does get to develop a 4e CRPG). The 1 round benefit doesn't do much for what's roughly 6 seconds, it'll work if the videogame was turn-based, but doesn't seem to add much for a real-time experience. Now I guess a player of a paladin PC could have have 2 targets set-up when using a smite, 1 to benefit from the secondary attacks, and another as receive the end of the smite. But already it's a little complicated to implement in such a videogame.

It could work okay if you can designate a default friendly ("Always protect Wilbur"). Simple scripts ("Protect lowest HP ally") could do the job well. Doing it all on the fly clearly would be a huge hassle, though.

 

[Montague68]

So, I take if you've never liked or used the confusion spell from any edition of D&D, since one of it's random actions is "attack the caster," which is exactly the same as this "taunt" effect.

Don't be obtuse. I'm referring to "aggro-management" abilities, not random effects like Confusion.