D&D (2024) New DMG Encounter Building Math vs 2014

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

So I've analyzed the DMG encounter building math, which I've included below. TLDR - Deadly difficulty is gone, Easy/Medium/Hard remain largely the same until level 8+, after which they get harder.

The big changes to the encounter math process are as follows:

1. The XP number of each difficulty grade for each character level has been changed from a Floor to a Ceiling.
2. The Encounter Multiplier for large groups and the concept of "adjusted XP" has been fully removed from the book.

For item #1, see the following excerpts from each DMG.

2014 DMG, indicating that the XP value is a Floor:

2024, indicating that the XP value is a ceiling:

People have been saying that the Low difficulty was removed and that Low is the new Medium, Medium is the new Hard, and Hard is the new deadly. This is INCORRECT. The ranges for each difficulty grade is largely unchanged, until levels 8+.

At levels 8+, the overall range for each difficulty grade gradually increase upwards, until 2024's Medium is closer to 2014's Hard, and 2024's Hard is closer to 2014's Deadly by level 20. 2024's Low remains similar to 2014's Low. This change generally acknowledges the fact that higher level parties can punch MUCH above their weight in 5e than the 2014 DMG assumed.

See the charts below for comparison. These number use a part of (4) PCs of each level:

2014:

Character Level	Easy	Med	Hard	Ddly
1	100 - 199	200 - 299	300 - 399	400+
2	200 - 399	400 - 599	600 - 799	800+
3	300 - 599	600 - 899	900 - 1599	1600+
4	500 - 999	1000 - 1499	1500 - 1999	2000+
5	1000 - 1999	2000 - 2999	3000 - 4399	4400+
6	1200 - 2399	2400 - 3599	3600 - 5599	5600+
7	1400 - 2999	3000 - 4399	4400 - 6799	6800+
8	1800 - 3599	3600 - 5599	5600 - 8399	8400+
9	2200 - 4399	4400 - 6399	6400 - 9599	9600+
10	2400 - 4799	4800 - 7599	7600 - 11199	11200+
11	3200 - 6399	6400 - 9599	9600 - 14399	14400+
12	4000 - 7999	8000 - 11999	12000 - 17999	18000+
13	4400 - 8799	8800 - 13599	13600 - 20399	20400+
14	5000 - 9999	10000 - 15199	15200 - 22799	22800+
15	5600 - 11199	11200 - 17199	17200 - 25599	25600+
16	6400 - 12799	12800 - 19199	19200 - 28799	28800+
17	8000 - 15599	15600 - 23599	23600 - 35199	35200+
18	8400 - 16799	16800 - 25199	25200 - 37999	38000+
19	9600 - 19599	19600 - 29199	29200 - 43599	43600+
20	11200 - 22799	22800 - 33999	34000 - 50799	50800+

2024:

Character Level	Low Range	Med Range	Hard Range
1	0 - 200	201 - 300	301 - 400
2	0 - 400	401 - 600	601 - 800
3	0 - 600	601 - 900	901 - 1600
4	0 - 1000	1001 - 1500	1501 - 2000
5	0 - 2000	2001 - 3000	3001 - 4400
6	0 - 2400	2401 - 4000	4001 - 5600
7	0 - 3000	3001 - 5200	5201 - 6800
8	0 - 4000	4001 - 6800	6801 - 8400
9	0 - 5200	5201 - 8000	8001 - 10400
10	0 - 6400	6401 - 9200	9201 - 12400
11	0 - 7600	7601 - 11600	11601 - 16400
12	0 - 8800	8801 - 14800	14801 - 18800
13	0 - 10400	10401 - 16800	16801 - 21600
14	0 - 11600	11601 - 19600	19601 - 24800
15	0 - 13200	13201 - 21600	21601 - 31200
16	0 - 15200	15201 - 24400	24401 - 39200
17	0 - 18000	18001 - 28800	28801 - 46800
18	0 - 20000	20001 - 34800	34801 - 56800
19	0 - 22000	22001 - 42800	42801 - 68800
20	0 - 25600	25601 - 52800	52801 - 88000

For point #2:

The XP multiplier is gone, full stop. No matter how big your enemy party, you only count their XP with a x1 multiplier. I would assume this will have a larger impact on the difficulty of encounters than the changed XP ranges.

As an example - in 2014, because of the XP multiplier, a group of (5) Direwolves vs (4) level 4 PCs is rated at Deadly, worth 2400XP.

However, in 2024 a group of (10) Direwolves vs (4) level 4 PCs is only rated at Hard, and is worth only 2000XP, despite being twice as difficult as the 2014 encounter.

Generally, I think this is an overcorrection and will result in early level TPKs that would've been avoidable under the 2014 encounter building rules.

 

[maeve]

Interesting. I'd noticed the change from a threshold to a budget, but hadn't really thought through its impact (or lack thereof) on the XP ranges.

People have been saying that the Low difficulty was removed and that Low is the new Medium, Medium is the new Hard, and Hard is the new deadly. This is INCORRECT. The ranges for each difficulty grade is largely unchanged, until levels 8+.

I'm pretty sure the designers of 5.5e are among the people that said this, which doesn't help matters. I recall them saying that that the old "easy" difficulty was too easy and so removed that difficulty and bumped everything up in the lower levels. I guess they must have misunderstood (or misremembered) the 5e rules.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Interesting. I'd noticed the change from a threshold to a budget, but hadn't really thought through its impact (or lack thereof) on the XP ranges.


I'm pretty sure the designers of 5.5e are among the people that said this, which doesn't help matters. I recall them saying that that the old "easy" difficulty was too easy and so removed that difficulty and bumped everything up in the lower levels. I guess they must have misunderstood (or misremembered) the 5e rules.

Or they only meant in the higher ranges. They've communicated like that before, where they were focused on a specific thing in their mind, but used language that covers a lot broader area to those who aren't in the middle of the design process with them and already know what they are talking about.

I give people a pass on that one, because it's not an unusual thing to do in extemporaneous conversation.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Or they only meant in the higher ranges. They've communicated like that before, where they were focused on a specific thing in their mind, but used language that covers a lot broader area to those who aren't in the middle of the design process with them and already know what they are talking about.

Very possible.

The removal of the group multiplier is, in my opinion, a far more impactful change than adjusting the upper level difficulty thresholds.

 

[Xeviat]

Ok, that means I can continue using the 2014 guidelines, using the multipliers and the medium, hard, and deadly marks as my metrics. They've worked well for me.

2 CR 2s is a harder fight than 1 CR 2 back to back with another CR 2. The lack of a multiplier doesn't acknowledge that.

I kind of miss 3E's 0 XP once something was sufficiently below you.

But I still want to recreate 4E's system and rebuild the monsters.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ok, that means I can continue using the 2014 guidelines, using the multipliers and the medium, hard, and deadly marks as my metrics. They've worked well for me.

2 CR 2s is a harder fight than 1 CR 2 back to back with another CR 2. The lack of a multiplier doesn't acknowledge that.

You are correct. But having 2 encounters in a row was never correctly acknowledged.

1 CR 2, short rest 1 CR2 was also easier than two 1CR2 back to back.

Also you miss that if both CR 2's are fought at the same time, area of effect abilities become twice as effective.

It seems that optimizer's hate for area damage favours the old multiplier rule.

As soon as area damage is there, many low CR monsters are easier to beat than a single one.

I kind of miss 3E's 0 XP once something was sufficiently below you.

But I still want to recreate 4E's system and rebuild the monsters.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Ok, that means I can continue using the 2014 guidelines, using the multipliers and the medium, hard, and deadly marks as my metrics. They've worked well for me.

2 CR 2s is a harder fight than 1 CR 2 back to back with another CR 2. The lack of a multiplier doesn't acknowledge that.

Agree, same takeaway for me. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that higher level parties can handle harder average encounter difficulties.

Which, like.... yeah. Anyone who's run a lot of 5e has realized that.

 

[gorice]

So I've analyzed the DMG encounter building math, which I've included below. TLDR - Deadly difficulty is gone, Easy/Medium/Hard remain largely the same until level 8+, after which they get harder.

The big changes to the encounter math process are as follows:

1. The XP number of each difficulty grade for each character level has been changed from a Floor to a Ceiling.
2. The Encounter Multiplier for large groups and the concept of "adjusted XP" has been fully removed from the book.

Wait, so you're saying that for a group of say, level 5 characters, a 'hard' encounter is actually easier than in 2014, so long as they don't get overwhelmed by a horde of mooks?

Also, there is no deadly difficulty? Are XP values for monsters still the same as they were in 2014?

I'm flabbergasted. The 2014 encounter rules were already far too easy at all levels except perhaps 1-2. I used to build 'deadly' encounters as a baseline, and scale up from there. I've never seen a single party defeated using the 2014 encounter rules.

What's even more surprising is that the concept of attrition has been done away with. So, not only are encounters easier, but parties are expected to go into them at full strength.

I've got to be missing something, right?

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Wait, so you're saying that for a group of say, level 5 characters, a 'hard' encounter is actually easier than in 2014, so long as they don't get overwhelmed by a horde of mooks?

No, the difficulty is the same. Hard is Hard, its the same band of XP values. A single CR 8 creature is a Hard encounter in both methods.

The differences only show up when you build encounters which trigger the XP Multiplier - that is, swarms of weak creatures or small groups of medium power creatures.

Also, there is no deadly difficulty? Are XP values for monsters still the same as they were in 2014?

Correct, deadly is gone. XP values are the same.

I've got to be missing something, right?

I think making the game easier at lower levels and equally or more difficult at higher levels was the design goal.

 

[OB1]

No, the difficulty is the same. Hard is Hard, its the same band of XP values. A single CR 8 creature is a Hard encounter in both methods.

The differences only show up when you build encounters which trigger the XP Multiplier - that is, swarms of weak creatures or small groups of medium power creatures.


Correct, deadly is gone. XP values are the same.


I think making the game easier at lower levels and equally or more difficult at higher levels was the design goal.

Fantastic analysis @SpellObjectEnthusiast and this makes a ton of sense. Basically, they've removed 'Deadly' at lower levels, which makes sense, given how easy it is for a few die rolls to wipe out a character or even a party at lower levels.