D&D (2024) (+) New Edition Changes for Inclusivity (discuss possibilities)

[TheSword]

I think there's a cultural context to it that you just don't share: Finding out the universe (God, really) doesn't care about you is only scary if you already thought it (He) did. If you didn't start from that point of view, the whole "horrifying realization" thing falls apart.

Put another way - if you're Jewish, finding out Santa isn't real doesn't hurt as much.

That’s only one part of cosmic horror though. How do you know you aren’t mad. Because you reference your behaviours, sensory inputs and opinions against what the rest of society expects and shares.

Now what if you were seeing things that everything you’ve been told up to this point says can’t exist. That other people don’t see and don’t believe when you tell them you’ve see it. Or worse pretend not to and you don’t know why. When you doubt even your ability to reason correctly and draw logical conclusions.

Cosmic horror isn’t just about fearing the lack of god, its about fearing what’s happening inside your head.

 

[Wishbone]

If you didn't know anything about Lovecraft's person beliefs, I don't think there's anything objectionable in "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," "The Color Out of Space," or "The Dunwich Horror." At least nothing more objectionable than what you'd find in an R.E. Howard story.

Given that we do know about his personal beliefs, I'd still probably recommend those as the ones to read. The stories get pretty same-y if you read enough of the short stories close to each other. Dunwich Horror at least has a slightly positive ending and some characterization.

It's funny too since Howard's correspondence with Lovecraft apparently softened his own views on race by contrast.

 

[DnD Warlord]

My idea a bit not fleshed out.

There are four classes: warrior, cleric, rogue, mage. These classes set some basic options: HD, spellcasting progress, saves, basic proficiencies. Each class gives a pool of points to buy class features with. These features include weapon/armor proficiencies, abilities like rage, smite, turn undead, metamagic, etc. Some abilities have prerequisites like level or other abilities you need first, but if you belong to that class, you can spend your points to buy your classes abilitiesn. You can also poach off the other classes lists, but they cost more points than if you were a member of the normal class. So if your a warrior and want to pick up some spells to be an EK, it would cost you more to learn magic then if you were a mage. Some basic abilities are reprinted for multiple class lists as well.

Warriors are the primary fighting type; d10 HD, Proficient in all weapons and light/medium armor. Some of the themes provide include Fighter, Battlerager, Oathsworn, Eldritch Knight, and Marshal. You can follow the theme or do you own thing.

For Rogue, you have d8 HD and a large selection of skills to be proficient in. You can buy a lot of skill-based abilities as well as skirmish and flashy abilities. The Thief, Bard, Assassin, Ranger, and Martial Artist are options.

Mages can select Intelligence or Charisma as a casting stat and initially select either Arcane (elemental/combat magic) or Mesmerism (enchantment/illusion) spell lists. Mages can represent Wizards, Sorcerers, Beguilers, and Artificers.

Clerics are primarily priest role who can pick Wisdom or Charisma as a casting stat and pick from Divine (healing) or Primal (buffing/summoning) magic. Most options here are focused on domains to represent Life, Nature, Trickery or War, but the Shapeshifter Spiritwalker, and Pactbound reside here to.

As the game grows, new archetypes with new abilities get added to the core classes. Eventually, a fifth class (psionicist) could be added.
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Did you read mine that he responded to making the classes all have 2 sets of options (combat feats and non combat talents) but class starting with a handful of each. Give each class some basic profs and HD (lower then 5ehd) and make lists of both feats and talents you can draw from.

 

[Imaculata]

Cosmic horror isn’t just about fearing the lack of god, its about fearing what’s happening inside your head.

It's also about the idea that there are all powerful evils waiting out there, too horrible and unthinkable for us to comprehend, that could wipe us all out at a moments notice. A truth of which the mere realization would drive a man to insanity or suicide. We live in blissful ignorance of these waking nightmares.

I think Stephen Kings The Mist and John Carpenters In the Mouth of Madness come closest to this sort of existential horror.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think it's that our prevailing cultural orthodoxy on the philosophical approach to intolerance changed in this past decade. In recent years, people have become fans of Karl Popper's 1945 treatise on the paradox of tolerance. Prior to that, the prevailing cultural consensus was the marketplace of ideas as advocated by philosophers such as John Stuart Mill and John Milton.

I am more of a Mill's and Milton fan than a Popper fan in approaching the topic.

The marketplace of ideas didn’t work, when it comes to bigotry. It just gives them a platform. It doesn’t matter that we have better arguments, they aren’t relying on arguments in good faith to spread their message.

I wish people understood that. These bigoted groups have swelled in size, activity and strength in the last 10 years due to the switch in tactics.

No. They’ve swelled over the last several decades due to what you’re advocating for. They’re easier to see over the last ten years because they’ve turned to recruiting online

Yes, it has been proven, there's even a name for this phenomona. It's called The Backfire Effect.

And the Market Place of Ideas concept just runs into another problem with human psychology. That problem being confirmation bias. Each person will just see the person they supported having "won" the debate.

And yet, people change each others minds, every day.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's also about the idea that there are all powerful evils waiting out there, too horrible and unthinkable for us to comprehend, that could wipe us all out at a moments notice. A truth of which the mere realization would drive a man to insanity or suicide. We live in blissful ignorance of these waking nightmares.

I think Stephen Kings The Mist and John Carpenters In the Mouth of Madness come closest to this sort of existential horror.

Stephen Kong’s It is the closest I’ve come to understanding what’s so scary about it, and that’s because what kills Stanley isn’t the fear. You can live with fear. It’s the wrongness of it. It’s standing in the face of something that cannot be, but is, and having to reconcile that either by way of madness or death.

But King gets it quite right. Not everyone is even going to have that dilemma. Not everyone is going to have a hard time accepting that there are incomprehensible evils that could wipe us all out on a whim.

 

[Umbran]

I think he's picked the wrong triggering event from four years ago that has empowered bigotry and racism and given it tacit permission to crawl out from under the rocks it was hiding under.

Mod Note:

Dude. Please stop.

 

[Umbran]

And yet, people change each others minds, every day.

Not generally during acrimonious argument. A person may change their mind eventually, but typically not in the middle of being confronted in a situation where perceived loss of face is an issue.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not generally during acrimonious argument. A person may change their mind eventually, but typically not in the middle of being confronted in a situation where perceived loss of face is an issue.

Sure. However, that doesn't mean that the interaction wherein someone turtles up doesn't later lead to them changing their mind.

Look at the Gay Rights movement. It succeeded with incredible speed in getting Queer people the right to marry, and changing the majority of Americans minds from opposing gay marriage to supporting gay rights in general in basically a decade, and it did so by confronting people and by telling bigots to shut the hell up.

 

[Haldrik]

Sure. However, that doesn't mean that the interaction wherein someone turtles up doesn't later lead to them changing their mind.

Look at the Gay Rights movement. It succeeded with incredible speed in getting Queer people the right to marry, and changing the majority of Americans minds from opposing gay marriage to supporting gay rights in general in basically a decade, and it did so by confronting people and by telling bigots to shut the hell up.

The concerns about Gay and Trans persons, have always been around. The ancient world, the medieval world, even Victorian Britain, all remember gay and trans couples. The modern political framework mainly entered popular discourse during the sexual revolution of the 60s (1965-1975). So were part of a wider discussion about sexual ethics. Meanwhile, a modern urban economy made it possible to survive without having a large family for an agricultural economy. So new social institutions like egalitarian samesex marriages became thinkable.

I feel, the watershed moment of Gay and Trans equality was in 1990, at the march in Washington DC. From that moment on, things (slowly) became increasingly better for sexual minorities.

Recently, even socially conservative Supreme Court justices agreed that the prohibition against discrimination because of sex, necessarily included gay and trans, since what was acceptable for one sex, was denied to an other sex, which is precisely what the prohibition opposed.

So to reach this point took 30 years?! That is a long time. That is a generation.

Like technology, society is accelerating faster and faster. So, significant events will probably happen sooner in the future. At the same time, this means all of us will be struggling to keep our balance to deal with new and surprising situations.