New errata posted, stealth changes official

[Prestidigitalis]

Nice to have some errata (And addenda! Don't forget the addenda!) but I would have appreciated an update on Commander's Strike and a denerfing of Battle Mage.

But maybe I'm just one of those people who can never be satisfied...

 

[Lizard]

They fixed Stalwart Guard! Yay!

(I kept asking people exactly how this ability was supposed to work as a 'Martial' power, and people kept remembering urgent appointments in distant cities...as written originally, anyone near you when you used the power got a bonus to their defense even when they moved far away from you...or if you were dead...as long as the encounter lasted.)

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

So Stealth now reads:

Success: You can't be targeted. Enemies don't know what space you occupy, but may guess it correctly. If they do, they can attack that space; at a -5 penalty on ranged or melee attacks. Cover and Superior Cover stack with that penalty (to -7 and -10, respectively).

Right? (Obviously not complete, but by way of opening a discussion.)

This is where I love seeing a design worded in the positive, telling us what a rule does do, instead of in the negative telling us the framing information.

-vk

As the Stealth rule reads, yeah enemies don't know but may guess. Since Stealth happens at the end of a move action, that could be a pretty accurate guess.

I'm disappointed they didn't Update or FAQ Fleeting Ghost. If it works as written, and the power allows you to make a Stealth check at the end of a move, that opens up gaining stealth in concealment or cover, which makes the four other Rogue utilities that only work if you're already hidden something other than a waste.

If Fleeting Ghost just removes the penalty for moving, then the Stealth powers become traps, being usable only in a hard to get condition or via Bluff (at the cost of a standard action and limited to once per encounter, and which isn't something all rogues that want to be stealthy would necessarily take or have the CHA to do well). And really, with Stealth that hard to get, the whole thing becomes pretty much a corner (literally) case of move/deftstrike or not worth the bother.

 

[Markn]

So using the new rules for Stealth,

If a rogue comes out of cover using Deft Strike because he can move 2 squares before attacking he still gets his Sneak Attack, right? This would be due to keeping Stealth until the action is completed.

Does that make sense or am I reading it wrong?

 

[helium3]

So using the new rules for Stealth,

If a rogue comes out of cover using Deft Strike because he can move 2 squares before attacking he still gets his Sneak Attack, right? This would be due to keeping Stealth until the action is completed.

Does that make sense or am I reading it wrong?

That seems right to me.

 

[zsek320]

The way I see it, as long as the stealth character is stealthed they can try and stay stealthed thanks to stealth meaning that they are invisible and thus out of line of sight...

So with the new stealth rules a rogue needs to run around a corner make the stealth check and then he can use fleeting ghost (I think thats the one that allows you to move) to try and move closer to an enemy for a couple of rounds... (because if you maintain stealth then you still are hidden thus there is no line of sight)

There is also a reason for a rogue to pick up Eyebite... become invisible and move a square and make a stealth check...at the start of the rogues turn he loses invisibility but he would still be stealthed...

 

[mattdm]

Does anyone know if the official PDFs have been updated for this errata? I figure it'll take a while, but I'm curious to see how long.

I e-mailed the people selling 'em to ask, and they didn't know. They did point to the "free update PDFs" I could download -- but, uh, that's the same thing we're all looking at.

If real, integrated updated PDFs do happen, both soon and with an indication that it'll be done regularly, I can finally find the justification I need to pay more for the electronic version than I already have for my hard copy.

On another random note: I continue to be surprised that there's no errata for the Twin Strike / Careful Attack discrepancy. What's up with that?

 

[Ghaerdon Fain]

Glad they finally got this posted so it's now officially official, rather than simply being official.

LMAO! Ya! So I really do like 4E, my family and friends love it and I'm in two groups one as a DM and the other as a Player ... anyone else really bugged that these "corrections" continue to happen? All playtesters and writers should be shot. It's starting to be a bit of a joke - arn't we aproaching v4.5? Can't wait for the new PHB 4.5 to come out

 

[Tellerve]

The way I see it, as long as the stealth character is stealthed they can try and stay stealthed thanks to stealth meaning that they are invisible and thus out of line of sight...

So with the new stealth rules a rogue needs to run around a corner make the stealth check and then he can use fleeting ghost (I think thats the one that allows you to move) to try and move closer to an enemy for a couple of rounds... (because if you maintain stealth then you still are hidden thus there is no line of sight)

There is also a reason for a rogue to pick up Eyebite... become invisible and move a square and make a stealth check...at the start of the rogues turn he loses invisibility but he would still be stealthed...

He doesn't necessarily need Fleeting Ghost. He would if he'd like to slink around in concealment/cover faster than 2 squares without a penalty. Although you could construe the wordage of Keep Still to mean if you didn't move over 2 squares you'd keep your original stealth check, but that's debatable. In any case, Fleeting Ghost surely makes it easier to sneak around the battlefield once you have gotten the original stealth.

Tellerve

 

[Stalker0]

Increasingly, the errata can be summarized as:

Player's Handbook [Revision]
Player's Handbook, page 1
Remove Player's Handbook. Replace with errata.

I actually think the MM has more, its getting where almost every monsters is getting some kind of change.

Now a lot of people say, X errata over Y pages is not a lot. I disagree because its not just the number of changes, its the severity. These changes aren't delete a word here, add a line there, oh this is a clarification to that mechanic....everyone knows what it should mean, we are just making sure it says that.

Many of these changes double a monster's damage, completely change how skills are handled and how successful they are, completely change how strong a power is, etc. If the errata is "balanced", that means the unerrated version is way out of balance, which is a problem for people who don't normally pay attention to errata.

Further, remember that 4e still has to sell itself. Its still very new, and many people are unconvinced whether its better than 3e. And of course, 1st impressions are so terribly important. Its hard to sell something when you have pages of errata already out the gate.

Ultimately I'm glad to have errata, after all I would rather have fixed mechanics than continue to play with broken ones. But...people have a legitimate right to gripe everytime they see new errata with big changes continue to roll out.


Finally, we have enough errata now to the point where its time to bring back the color coding. I'm already starting to hate having to go to that bottom index and then go back up and back down again to find the new errata.