New errata posted, stealth changes official

[Gladius Legis]

Yay, Dance of Steel is no longer teh suck.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Does anyone know if the official PDFs have been updated for this errata? I figure it'll take a while, but I'm curious to see how long.

I think it will happen at the same time the regular print versions will be errataed. Of course, I don't know when that will be. But they probably have to edit the PDFs for both and I find it unlikely they will want to do it twice.

 

[Reaper Steve]

I'd gald they are kicking out errata so quickly... not are not afraid to do it. Much better than many other games that just ignore their problems.

Hopefully, when they figure out they have everything 'just right' they will incorporate it all into the next printing and the pdfs. No, that wouldn't be a 4.5, that would just be an errated 4E. I would have no problem buying the core books again next year if they did this.

 

[amysrevenge]

I would have no problem buying the core books again next year if they did this.

I'd probably buy a fixed PHB, but I'll sift through errata for the others...

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

The way I see it, as long as the stealth character is stealthed they can try and stay stealthed thanks to stealth meaning that they are invisible and thus out of line of sight...

So with the new stealth rules a rogue needs to run around a corner make the stealth check and then he can use fleeting ghost (I think thats the one that allows you to move) to try and move closer to an enemy for a couple of rounds... (because if you maintain stealth then you still are hidden thus there is no line of sight)

That only works if you have cover and/or concealment in all the squares from the corner to where you're going. As soon as you don't have cover or concealment, you're no longer hidden. Shadow Stride (10th level) lets you move from cover through squares without cover and back into cover, with a sucessful check meaning you weren't seen at any point in your movement. So to use shadow stride, you need a corner or whatever grants you total concealment or superior cover, then at least cover and/or concealment within a number of squares equal to your move speed from the square to which you had to move to have total concealment and/or superior cover.

He doesn't necessarily need Fleeting Ghost. He would if he'd like to slink around in concealment/cover faster than 2 squares without a penalty. Although you could construe the wordage of Keep Still to mean if you didn't move over 2 squares you'd keep your original stealth check, but that's debatable. In any case, Fleeting Ghost surely makes it easier to sneak around the battlefield once you have gotten the original stealth.

You can't sneak around the battlefield without Fleeting Ghost (and specifically with Fleeting Ghost being read as granting a Stealth check) and perform your role as a Striker. You would need Superior Cover and/or Total Concealment all over the place so you could hide again after attacking without having to run (well, move not run) back to your corner. If you spend a round just to get around a corner, then other rounds moving but not attacking (and especially at 2 squares a round), you aren't performing your role as a striker. Which puts you back at doing the Electric Slide at a corner or it isn't worth bothering with, and you don't need the powers for that.

 

[Tellerve]

That only works if you have cover and/or concealment in all the squares from the corner to where you're going. As soon as you don't have cover or concealment, you're no longer hidden. Shadow Stride (10th level) lets you move from cover through squares without cover and back into cover, with a sucessful check meaning you weren't seen at any point in your movement. So to use shadow stride, you need a corner or whatever grants you total concealment or superior cover, then at least cover and/or concealment within a number of squares equal to your move speed from the square to which you had to move to have total concealment and/or superior cover.



You can't sneak around the battlefield without Fleeting Ghost (and specifically with Fleeting Ghost being read as granting a Stealth check) and perform your role as a Striker. You would need Superior Cover and/or Total Concealment all over the place so you could hide again after attacking without having to run (well, move not run) back to your corner. If you spend a round just to get around a corner, then other rounds moving but not attacking (and especially at 2 squares a round), you aren't performing your role as a striker. Which puts you back at doing the Electric Slide at a corner or it isn't worth bothering with, and you don't need the powers for that.

How can you say in the previous paragraph exactly what I was talking about moving around in concealment and then tell me you can't. Yes, the battlefield would have to have concealment, but it can be done. Fleeting ghost allows it to happen easier as you can move more spaces. If you already are moving around the battlefield then you can probably get a flanking opportunity to get combat advantage. If you wanted to sneak up and take out the guys in the back or get past AO then being able to sneak around the battlefield could be a good thing to do. If you are a melee rogue, you should be flanking, dazing, what have you to gain combat advantage. A ranged rogue can use deft strike.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

How can you say in the previous paragraph exactly what I was talking about moving around in concealment and then tell me you can't.

I said, "You can't sneak around the battlefield without Fleeting Ghost (and specifically with Fleeting Ghost being read as granting a Stealth check) and perform your role as a Striker."

And moving around, but not attacking, isn't performing your role as a Striker. Moving around really slowly and not attacking is just useless.

Yes, the battlefield would have to have concealment, but it can be done.

The battlefield has to provide total concealment (or superior cover) in multiple places if you want to sneak around the battlefield and perform your role as a Striker (without Fleeting Ghost granting you the ability to make a Stealth check). That's not going to happen often enough to make it worth taking powers that rely on it.

Fleeting ghost allows it to happen easier as you can move more spaces. If you already are moving around the battlefield then you can probably get a flanking opportunity to get combat advantage.

It doesn't matter how many spaces you can move if you can't re-hide after attacking. And, if you moved around the battlefield, there likely isn't going to be anyone in the party where you are to flank with.

If you wanted to sneak up and take out the guys in the back or get past AO then being able to sneak around the battlefield could be a good thing to do.

If you can't re-hide, you can't take out the guys in the back. There are a very few things you might be able to take out on a crit, but anything that isn't a minion takes multiple rounds to kill, and more if you can't get combat advantage. If you can't re-hide, as soon as you attack, you'll be blasted by everything on the map like an address in Afghanistan that tries to order a dialysis machine and clothes from a big and tall store.

If you are a melee rogue, you should be flanking, dazing, what have you to gain combat advantage. A ranged rogue can use deft strike.

There isn't a melee rogue and a ranged rogue, rangers are either/or. All rogues are proficient with and receive class bonuses with melee and ranged attacks. Rogues should be using a combination of flanking, stealth and powers with both melee and ranged attacks. Stealth is a default trained skill for rogues for a reason.

And even if there was such a thing as a melee or ranged rogue, who would want to play a character that just uses Deft Strike over and over and over?

 

[Kzach]

Finally, we have enough errata now to the point where its time to bring back the color coding. I'm already starting to hate having to go to that bottom index and then go back up and back down again to find the new errata.

I'll take your colour coding and raise you a fully colour and layout and design matched entry that you can cut out of a printed errata page and paste over the incorrect entry in the relevant book!

Apparently they think that will work for the DM screen, so why not all books?

 

[Tellerve]

Rogues should be using a combination of flanking, stealth and powers with both melee and ranged attacks. Stealth is a default trained skill for rogues for a reason.

I haven't played tons of 4e, just a few encounters and thought about it a lot, so perhaps you've found something I haven't. But you mention that rogues should use a combination and I wholeheartedly agree. From what I've seen on the boards people are saying that fights are usually done in less than 10 rounds. Certainly at lower levels a rogue is going to have to do his At-wills often in a combat, whether or not he's stealthy or not. So why not do a few Deft strikes from range, stealthily move to another hidden area 6 squares away with no movement penalty with Fleeting ghost to get a better angle at a new enemy, Deft strike, then when the defender moves into a suitable position charge/move out into a flanking position to get Combat advantage. Then when you move towards the controller in the back use your Encounter to daze him, then next round hit him with sly flourish while you have CA on him.

I don't see what's so bad about sneaking around a bit to flank enemies and get into good position and then use all your rogue bag of tricks. I've seen the rogue in our campaign use Sly Flourish over and over. My character used his at-wills over and over. That's what ya do.

Tellerve

 

[mattdm]

I think it will happen at the same time the regular print versions will be errataed. Of course, I don't know when that will be. But they probably have to edit the PDFs for both and I find it unlikely they will want to do it twice.

Depends how hard it is to produce a PDF in whatever document system they're using, I suppose. It seems like a good workflow would make that easy, and the changes could basically be inserted as they're developed, and new PDFs produced in parallel with the errata-list documents.

This might be a bit more work, but has a huge advantage when it comes time to do the next print edition — new errors inserted during the editing (either to the changed areas or accidentally elsewhere) are inevitable, and having the PDFs available beforehand means that there's a greater chance they're spotted before they're committed to hard copy.

And also it has a huge advantage in that people like me will be willing to buy the PDFs simply for the sake of regular updates.