New Feat: Exotic Melee Weapon Training

[Kobold Stew]

Even with the changes, it's still a terribly powerful feat, that could impact every round of every combat for a charter that has it.

Conceptually, you seem to be playing with two things here:
* special weapons, physical objects that are more efficient than those generally used
* special fighting techniques, new ways to use traditional weapons.

For a feat, to me, only the second makes sense. If there are finesse longswords out there, one would expect them to be widely used in society. The game was pretty clear about the limits of finesse weapons, and so the feat should be a new technique for using existing weapons.

Every elf still might want it -- elven weapon training does not give proficiency with a finesse melee weapon, despite the race's dex bonus.

It also allows a rogue to have a wider range of weapons with which to sneak attack. I'd build rogues specifically around this feat, characters using a spear, or a quarterstaff, or a battle-axe.

For me, *That*'s worth the investment of a feat, and is stronger than many others already in the PHB.

 

[Caliban]

That rather brings up one of my major gripes about that concept: How does this Elven Longsword differ from a normal longsword that grants it this property?
Special and rare materials? Treat like a magic item and allow anyone already proficient in longsword to use.
The weapon is clearly superior to a normal longsword: allowing even small children or infirm elderly to strike as hard as an athletic warrior. Why is in not in general use? What is it about its techniques that mean that these weapons haven't become part of martial training?

If you allow exotic weapons, then the assumption is that they require special training to use them properly, over and above that of a normal weapon.
Hence, the feat requirement.

But it also allows you to do both: use this already superior weapon and add another special property to it.
The weapon already has Finesse added to it by virtue of . . . whatever makes it an 'exotic' weapon. This feat allows you to also stack Reach, or Light, or even Thrown onto this.
Is that intended?

No. It's intended to be one or the other - add a property to a normal weapon, or use an exotic weapon as is. I added another update to the original feat.

 

[TwoSix]

Yea, for a feat, I'm not seeing where it would be overpowered with your current restrictions. You could dual wield a pair of finesse light 1d8 weapons, which is a +1 damage bump per weapon. Or you could make a longsword (or other 1d8 versatile 1d10 weapon) with dueling style, and make it heavy to use GWM. It's nice, but that's a pretty heavy feat investment for a small bump to AC.

 

[Caliban]

Even with the changes, it's still a terribly powerful feat, that could impact every round of every combat for a charter that has it.

Conceptually, you seem to be playing with two things here:
* special weapons, physical objects that are more efficient than those generally used
* special fighting techniques, new ways to use traditional weapons.

For a feat, to me, only the second makes sense. If there are finesse longswords out there, one would expect them to be widely used in society. The game was pretty clear about the limits of finesse weapons, and so the feat should be a new technique for using existing weapons.

If the exotic weapons don't make sense to you, don't include them in the game. I just kept that part in because mechanically it is identical to the "exotic technique" version, and can potentially add some flavor by allowing unusual or special weapons that are associated with a specific culture or combat style, etc.

You could add a magical exotic weapon to the treasure, giving them incentive to take the feat, but the feat would remain useful even if they get a different weapon down the line - it doesn't lock them into a specific weapon or the feat is wasted the way 3e did.

 

[Kobold Stew]

You miss my point.

1. There already is a feat to learn "exotic weapons" (if one chooses to add them to one's game). The otherwise nearly-useless Exotic Weapons Master. If that is your concern, the feat isn't needed. I could have said "For a [new, home-brewed] feat...."

2. There are two completely distinct concepts that are being blurred because mechanically they level out. One is already in the game, and the other, as I've tried to indicate, is a clean and cool new idea.

Hope this helps!

 

[Caliban]

You miss my point.

1. There already is a feat to learn "exotic weapons" (if one chooses to add them to one's game). The otherwise nearly-useless Exotic Weapons Master. If that is your concern, the feat isn't needed. I could have said "For a [new, home-brewed] feat...."

There is no "Exotic Weapon Master" feat in the PHB. Perhaps you mean "Weapon Master", which gives you proficiency with 4 weapons of your choice?

2. There are two completely distinct concepts that are being blurred because mechanically they level out. One is already in the game, and the other, as I've tried to indicate, is a clean and cool new idea.

I don't see them as being completely distinct. But if you do, and you want to use the feat, just remove the bit about exotic weapons. It doesn't really affect it one way or another.

 

[Kobold Stew]

There is no "Exotic Weapon Master" feat in the PHB. Perhaps you mean "Weapon Master", which gives you proficiency with 4 weapons of your choice?

Yup - that's the one. (thanks for the correction -- working from memory for a feat that I've never seen taken ). Your idea about Exotic weapons already has a space in the game; including it here is redundant.

I don't see them as being completely distinct. ... It doesn't really affect it one way or another.

I'm not sure I understand, unless you are finessing the word "completely". In any case, you see the point, even if you choose not to accept it.

 

[Caliban]

Yup - that's the one. (thanks for the correction -- working from memory for a feat that I've never seen taken ). Your idea about Exotic weapons already has a space in the game; including it here is redundant.

Or it is a worthy replacement for a feat that is never taken.

I'm not sure I understand, unless you are finessing the word "completely". In any case, you see the point, even if you choose not to accept it.

I don't see them as completely distinct. I see them as variations on a theme, and mechanically almost identical (the only difference being that an exotic weapon locks you into a specific extra property for that weapon, while the exotic training gives you a choice of properties). In any case, the bit about exotic weapons is basically fluff. If you don't like it, don't use it.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

No. It's intended to be one or the other - add a property to a normal weapon, or use an exotic weapon as is. I added another update to the original feat.

Can exotic weapons break the restrictions that the feat lets you apply to a normal weapon?

If not, why bother with an exotic weapon, when you still need the feat to use it, but the feat already allows you to do exactly the same thing with a normal one?

 

[TwoSix]

I don't see them as completely distinct. I see them as variations on a theme, and mechanically almost identical (the only difference being that an exotic weapon locks you into a specific extra property for that weapon, while the exotic training gives you a choice of properties). In any case, the bit about exotic weapons is basically fluff. If you don't like it, don't use it.

Your version of the feat also allows a character to swap weapons more easily if a magical weapon is found that isn't in the form the character favors. (This is definitely a feature, not a bug.)

Kudos for the feat, I'll be using it in my games.