New Gnomish Favoured Class?

[Wyrm Pilot]

Illusionist had been the favored, iconic class for gnomes for ... nearly 30 years. And in that time it has been seperate and distinct from the Wizard, albeit related.

It was only separate and distinct from 1978 until early 1989. And I still don't think that getting Maze as a 5th-level spell was such a big boost even then, considering how limited the illusionist spell list was in AD&D 1e. I tried playing a couple of illusionists (gnome and otherwise) in 1e, but never felt like I was getting much value out of it until 2e.

Assuming that people would just choose wizard isn't right, because a specialist wizard and a general wizard are not the exact same class.

Yes, they are. Just like a cleric with the Sun and Healing domains is, in fact, the same class as a cleric with the Destruction and War domains. Just because you choose to do something different with the options provided doesn't actually make it a different class.

BTW why should Illusionist be an option? Based on descriptions of gnomes in mythology and literature, offhand I'd say that the only reason the gnome favored class was illusionist in 3.0 is because it was the only type of wizard gnomes were allowed to be in AD&D (not, incidentally, the same as a "favored class"), which seems to be based solely on EGG's bizarre imagination; it really has no connection with the race outside of that. For people who aren't named Gygax, gnomes have traditionally been connected with knowledge, secrets, the element of Earth,and yes, some trickery; but illusions in general have never been their forte outside of (A)D&D.

Cheers,
Wyrm Pilot
____________________

Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians!
-- Eleanor of Aquitaine

 

[diaglo]

It was only separate and distinct from 1978 until early 1989.

psssttt... the illusionist first appeared in The Strategic Review.

it is older than you think.

 

[Nyaricus]

Assuming that people would just choose wizard isn't right, because a specialist wizard and a general wizard are not the exact same class.

Thank you for pointing this out, because this just highlights one of the points I was tryingt o make: every class has different options, but are still the same class. Fighter A who choose weapon focus and power attack is, under your definition, a different class than fighter B who took combat expertise and dodge. Thus, what you are saying is that I should post up a list of every possible character using 3.0 rules, arbitrary or not - after all, that level 15 barbarian with scribe scroll, empower spell and weapon focus (rays) is a different class than the guy who took powerattack and cleave, right?

It's an arbitrary distinction, and frankly the illusionist "class" in D&D is just a chose that any other gets to take, ni a different skin. Fighters choose their feats, clerics choose domains, etc. It's all options, and all on the surface.

In any case, I'm not trying to pick on you, so please don't think of that way if perceived - I'm simply highlighting why it's arbitrary to include the illusionist "class".

Also, welcome to EN World and remember: our bark is worse than our bite. Hope you enjoy it here

cheers,
--N

 

[diaglo]

why not limit the poll to the base classes then?

Cleric
Fighting Man
Magic User

with the optional Thief class thrown in.

 

[Nyaricus]

why not limit the poll to the base classes then?

Cleric
Fighting Man
Magic User

with the optional Thief class thrown in.

Wouldn't the Paladin and the Bard be on that list as well, or is my 1e-fu weak right now??

Diaglo, you're always good for a laugh man

 

[sjmiller]

Like many others, I would have chosen Illusionist if it were an option. I played a number of Gnome Illusionists over the 27 years I have been playing D&D. Creative use of the various illusion spells make the Illusionist a feared class in my gaming group. Well, that and the one Gnome Illusionist with a Wand of Frost in one hand and a Wand of Wonder in the other. He was a terror to behold!

Failing that option, I went an entirely different route. Bringing Gnomes back to a more Neo-Victorian/Germanic root, I picked Druid. Making them nature based seemed an acceptable and interesting path for the most neglected race in D&D.

 

[Nyeshet]

The most often chosen classes - Artificer, Bard, Beguiler, Wizard - are just widening the margin from the second most often chosen classes - Druid, Sorcerer, Archivist - which, though also increasing in number beyond most other classes, are not appreciably altering their positions (beyond Druid overtaking Sorcerer).

As such, I feel it is unlikely that this poll will alter much more in its results, however many more days or weeks you leave it up. As such, I suggest the closing of this poll and the openning of the next poll, be it Half-Elf or Halfling.

All in favor?

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As an aside, this poll is to determine new favored class(es) for the core races from amongst those 20-level classes released for 3.5e by WotC. I do not recall an Ilusionist class as having been released for 3.5e or even 3.0e. If it has, which Complete, Race, or other 3.5e WotC book was it in? If it has not been released for such, it has no point in being on this poll and so - despite what some are stating - should not be listed on this poll.

 

[Aluvial]

Illusionist

 

[Gez]

My Gnome NPCs tend to be druids, monks, or diviners.



See Yoda? Well, other than some cosmetical details, he's basically a Gnome from my campaign setting. Small, unassuming, may act in a buffonous manner to get strangers to underestimate them; but wise, magically powerful, and kick-ass when they actually reveal their true potential.

 

[malladin]

Th ething about Gnomes is they don't really have a standard culture like elves and dwarves do, so reallythey can be whatever you want them to be in your gameworld.

Ben