New Killer Spell?

[Marimmar]

Yesterday our party faced a dire threat Evard's Black Tentacles! Luckily the wizard casting it was actually only 5th level and the NPC-generator screw up when it spew out the spells so we still live. Nevertheless the new tentacles spell is a real killer, no save, no SR, complete damage immunity and a grapple bonus that is definitely way too high for most PCs to overcome. A single casting of that spell would have wiped out our Lv3 party without any survivors or any way to avoid certain death. What do you think?



From the SRD:

Black Tentacles
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell conjures a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfoot—including water. They grasp and entwine around creatures that enter the area, holding them fast and crushing them with great strength.
Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage.
Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage. The tentacles continue to crush the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes.
Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles. Even creatures who aren’t grappling with the tentacles may move through the area at only half normal speed.
Material Component: A piece of tentacle from a giant octopus or a giant squid.

 

[Darkness]

Hm. A real nuisance, yeah, but certainly not invincible.
Some things that help against it:

Dispel magic.

Damage resistance. (e.g., stoneskin.)

Don't stand too close together.

Freedom of movement.

Cast bull's strength (or enlarge person, etc.) on comrades that have been grappled. (Unless you get in danger yourself by doing so.) The sooner they break out, the better - and this increases their chances.

Push the caster into the area of effect; it apparently doesn't say that the caster won't be grappled as well. Also, note that the caster can dismiss this spell - therefore, you should give him a reason to do so!

 

[hong]

I think I prefer the old version of Ev's tentacles. It only started grappling the round after the casting, but it lasted for 1 hr/level, ie close enough to forever. Made a great minefield/area denial spell, without being a likely instant party killer.

 

[Malachi of Kossuth]

Archers anyone?

 

[drnuncheon]

I think I prefer the old version of Ev's tentacles. It only started grappling the round after the casting, but it lasted for 1 hr/level, ie close enough to forever. Made a great minefield/area denial spell, without being a likely instant party killer.

Really? I disliked it for exactly the same reasons - whenever I cast it, everyone scattered from the area before it could grapple them - and the darn thing was 1 hour/level without the option to dismiss, so if I cast it to block a passage or something, we had to either sit around waiting for it to expire, or blow a dispel magic to move on.

J

 

[AuraSeer]

Nevertheless the new tentacles spell is a real killer, no save, no SR, complete damage immunity and a grapple bonus that is definitely way too high for most PCs to overcome.

The spell grapples pretty well, but not unbeatably so; the bonus really isn't all that high. I can't really see how this spell alone would lead to a TPK.

At caster level 7, the spell will have a +15 grapple check. A regular Ftr7, assuming Strength 18, will have +11. Though he won't win consistently, he has a good chance of breaking free after a round or two, and it only takes one Move to get out of the spell area. (At higher levels it's even less threatening, because the fighter will have more magical bonuses.)

Roguelike or monklike characters, with lower BAB but high Dex, can get out with Escape Artist checks. Or, they may simply evade the grapple altogether by virtue of a high touch AC. +15 on a touch attack is rather likely to hit, but far from certain, and the spell will only get one chance.

Mages will have trouble, as they always do when grappled, but that's why dimension door is verbal-only.

 

[Hackenslash]

I like the 3.5 version...

Hi All,

I quite like the 3.5 version of the "tentacle spell", after all it is supposed to be a moderately powerfull spell at 4th level and a caster is normally supposed to be 7th level to cast it. When you compare a lower level spell like Scorching Ray or Fireball and the amount of damage they can deal out, well I think the damage is justified, plus there is always the chance of breaking free, and with the new 3.5 monsters with templates and extra abilites etc that probably won't be too hard. So my vote is that Evards Black Tentacles is ok for it's level and the type of creatures it would be facing. Cheers !!!

 

[sithramir]

I think his point was that it would be a TPK for their THIRD level group. Since it would take a minimum of a 7th level caster to use it it SHOULD be a TPK as a 7th level mage should be able to take down a few 3rd level guys . Could have used an ice storm or something (no save for half) to be just as effective and thats not even a great spell.

 

[AuraSeer]

I think his point was that it would be a TPK for their THIRD level group.

Oh. Good catch.

Yeah, it's definitely overpowered against 3rd-level PCs, but that's why a Wiz4 can't cast it yet.

 

[Tellerve]

how is a +15 to your touch AC not pretty certain? Assuming your going after a 7th level wizard enemy npc that cast the spell the party isn't also 7th, but heck, let's say they are as well...which wouldn't be much of a fight but whatever.

So, go with the obligatory 18 in both dex and wisdom, then you've got a touch AC of 19 (4 dex, 4 wisdom, 1 monk levels). Let's say you've got a ring of protection +1 and bracers of armor +2. So AC 22, but touch of 20. So, lessee, with a +15 touch I only have to roll 5 or higher. To me, that seems pretty darn likely.

However, I don't think the spell is overpowered as it is written in 3.5, and I was really just commenting on the fact you don't wanna get near it but once there, if you can get out then you should be able to get out of the area of effect (as has been mentioned)

Tellerve