D&D (2024) New leak looks real bad

[Bagpuss]

Playing devil's advocate here but personally not sure what is "Really Bad" about this leak. $30 top tier isn't something I would want to pay, but it is all the content, if you are getting the equivalent of a book a month, plus the VTT with all the bells as whistles, then it seems reasonable.

Roll20's top tier "only" is $9.99 a month, but if you say throw Dragonlance Shadow of the Dragon Queen (at $29.99) in then you are over $30. We don't know the prices of any of the other tiers besides presumably a free one. Of course WotC would want everyone to be on the $30 tier, I would like a 30% pay rise, it's not going to happen but I can dream.

As for AI Dungeon Masters there are more players than DMs there needs to be some solution, seems to me AI is getting to a point where it could be trained on particular modules, and probably do an okay job. It's not ideal but I can imagine some players willing to pay for a AI to run them through a game rather than not play at all.

No homebrew on the base tier which is likely to be $0 if they want to compete with other VTTs. This makes sense to protect your investment in what you've put into the other tiers. If folks could just copy it in "homebrew", why would they pay?

The Deauthorize OGL 1.0a is the only real concern there, even that I can understand, as you can't patch problems in the old license if people can continue to use it. The old OGL has issues, legally it could leave WotC possibly liable for content third parties produce. So if they are going to make an irrevocable license it probably needs to be cleaned up first. Just don't be adding royalties and other clauses that are going to piss everyone off. Try to stay true to the old OGL's gentleman's agreement not to take people to court for supporting your brand.

Sure the OGL 1.1 was a cock-up of epic proportions, the apology hasn't been much better (it really seems the people involved do not understand the purpose of the original OGL or the benefits the OGL has given WotC), but I can understand their reasons for a change and can believe not all of them are motivated by greed (although it does seem a lot are), some are clearly about protecting the brand.

 

[Reynard]

I think its ironic that the generation that walked to school, opened the windows to cool the house, mowed the lawn with a push mower, used wind to dry their clothes, solar to heat their water and had almost nothing made of plastic are the ones "destroying the environment".

You're thinking of the Greatest Generation. The boomers grew up in the 60s and were the Me Generation of the 80s.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

As a DM, I could see a possibility to spend that much... but there needs to be a book flatrate in it and everything you wish for creating adventures on the tabletop. If it saves me a few hours of preparation each month, maybe...

but I am very skeptical.

 

[Steel_Wind]

To you.

Them doing the OGL 1.1 was not breaking any promise they made in my opinion. A bunch of you just decided that.

You are entitled to your opinion, however, if you do not realize that is it a minority view among the informed, you are engaging in stubborn self-deception. Markets and "consumer reaction" are an agglomeration of individual reactions and judgments. The view of "the bunch" prevails.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Playing devil's advocate here but personally not sure what is "Really Bad" about this leak. $30 top tier isn't something I would want to pay, but it is all the content, if you are getting the equivalent of a book a month, plus the VTT with all the bells as whistles, then it seems reasonable.

I'm in inclined to agree with this.

The current "lowest tier" on DDB does not include homebrew right now - that requires at least a DM with a subscription sharing material with players. So this does not seem shocking, it sounds like "DDB".

The $30 top "platinum tier" sounds like a rate that is twice what WoW has been since ~2005. That's in the zone. I do think $20 is far closer to reasonable though.

The reference to the AI DM stuff seems designed to antagonize the reader of this leak.

What has not been mentioned is whether there is a product buy-in on top of that cost as well. That is a large Type 6 Devil in the details. With WoW, the purchase of the current base expansion is required before it brings with it all the content which has come before. So there is a ~$60 base cost of the game (which comes with 1 month of "free" play).

I would expect to see something like this regarding some aspect of their products and services. In particular, just because this scheme is primarily aimed at increasing the amount of money players pay to play 6e, it doesn't mean WotC is going to give up squeezing DMs to wring their wallets for all they can shake loose.

It will be both.

 

[FormerLurker]

A thought: has anyone given thought to who owns the homebrew if it’s used on DDB? Could the new OGL licence be used to take it and resell it as their own?

That would depend on the Terms of Use.
But generally, the creator would own the copyright and WotC would also have ownership rights to copy and distribute, like with the DMsGuild.

Which is one of those things that people who don't understand the law or issues read and get upset about and freak out over WotC stealing their precious ideas.... forgetting that DnDBeyond needs to copy the homebrew every time they make a sever back-up and distribute by showing it to other people. (Plus, it prevents WotC from being sued if someone does a homebrew subclass for, oh, the blight druid or fatespinner, and WotC does something similar.)

 

[FormerLurker]

WoW got around that problem rather easily. My guess is the local FLGS or even Wal-Mart would sell them for DDB, too. I'm not trying to spread fear, but maybe a little doubt.

Anyways, something similar for DDB seems a reasonable product to address the concern you mention.
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And that very well might exist. And it's already easy to gift products and subs on DnDBeyond already with digital codes.

But having to rely on them to play the game and be unable to play the game otherwise? That seems incredibly unlikely. Even online, it seems dubious other VTT will go away or be unusable. Or that that the entry level price point will be $30.

 

[FormerLurker]

The $30 top "platinum tier" sounds like a rate that is twice what WoW has been since ~2005. That's in the zone. I do think $20 is far closer to reasonable though.

If Blizzard was launching WoW now and/ or could get away with increasing prices, do you still think they'd be charging $15?

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

If paying 30$ per month was the only possible way to play RPGs I'd definitely pay. It would still be pretty cheap compared to many other forms of entertainment.

So I'd say it's not impossible that a 30$ tier on d&d beyond could be worth the money, but I'm not sure what they could realistically offer that's worthwhile. AI has become capable of some incredible things in the last few years, but still needs human guidance for consistently useful results. The age of the AI DM isn't here quite yet.

 

[eyeheartawk]

If paying 30$ per month was the only possible way to play RPGs I'd definitely pay. It would still be pretty cheap compared to many other forms of entertainment.

Well, that's the idea.

Once the OGL is revoked those VTTs and online tools without special agreements go away. I'd also wager that the ones that do have special agreements will be allowed to expire without renewing.

So yeah, if your thing is playing electronically to a large degree it'll be the only real choice.

Remember, it's not about adding value so much as eliminating choice.