New minis preview: Trolls regenerate differently

[Mad Mac]

I don't think one should try to extrapolate too much of the 4E troll's abilities from it's 3E minis stats.

True to an extent, but I wouldn't ignore it either. They seem to be calling out this ability as an example of the 4th edition Troll changes. The main difference is that almost every mini ability has a simple fire and forget mechanic while the RPG game is more complex. The RPG Troll may have one immediate heal ability, but can use it again when bloodied, for example.

Incidently, if you look at the stats vs 3rd edition Trolls...

RPG vs Mini (3rd Edition)

HPs 63 vs 60
MV 6 vs 6
AC 16 vs 16
Saves Average 6 vs 6
Attacks +9/+9+4 vs +9/+9
Claw Dam Average 9.5 vs 10
Rend Dam Average 16 vs 15

The Feral Troll mini has basically the same stats as every other Troll mini they've put out because they're all modelled on the same set of stats. Only the special abilities really vary between minis, and this Troll seems to be more inspired by the 4th edition mechanics, even though the stats are all 3rd edition.

 

[Abstraction]

Is there really much difference, mechanically, to being able to heal 20 hit points as an immediate action once and simply giving the monster 20 more hit points?

 

[ZappoHisbane]

Is there really much difference, mechanically, to being able to heal 20 hit points as an immediate action once and simply giving the monster 20 more hit points?

In the mini's game, absolutely. At 1/2 HP, creatures are forced to make a morale save or rout off the battlefield. With only 60HP, it's relatively easy to deal 30 HP in a single attack (crit or a titan/epic figure) and force that save, hopefully ending up with one less threat on the board. While the immediate heal does let the Troll get almost all of that right back, he still dropped past that threshold, and must make the save.

However the nice new thing about the immediate action IIRC is that if my Troll is toe-to-toe with a nasty that does 15-20 HP damage on multiple attacks, I can use that immediate heal to PREVENT the morale save that would be forced by the second hit. If the opponent has forgotten that little detail, so much the better.

 

[KoshPWNZYou]

Is there really much difference, mechanically, to being able to heal 20 hit points as an immediate action once and simply giving the monster 20 more hit points?

'Mechanically' there's nothing but difference.

'Fundamentally', there isn't much difference. But it does make the creature more vulnerable to a swift, heavy assault. In the case of fighting one powerful creature, you would try to take it out in the first round (though how much fun would that be). In the case of a few lesser creatures, it would encourage ganging up on one at a time, trying to squeeze damaging and killing into a single initiative round so you deny each one the chance to heal. In the case of a 20hp heal, how effective would it be if the party wizard used his fireball on a group of such creatures, as opposed to a flame arrow on the one near the rest of the party?

Plus, you have to consider any abilities that deny creatures the use of regeneration or of swift actions in general.

 

[Stalker0]

Also if bloodied status is included, that will be affected. Once the troll is beneath its half hitpoints, perhaps something happens. But with that healing that something wouldn't happen until a second beating.

 

[amethal]

Besides you don't have to care anymore if the attack deals non-lethal damage (non-fire) or real one.

Using fire against trolls is very "D&D" to me.

I'll be sad to see it go, if that's the case.

 

[jeffh]

SW Saga allows you to make up the three swift actions per round if you choose to forgo an attack and a move action.

This is how I houseruled it for my own adaptation of SW Saga to d20 fantasy

Full Attack
Move - Swift - Attack
Move-Move-Swift
Move-Move-Move
Swift-Swift-Move
Swift-Swift-Attack
Swift-Swift-Swift
Attack-Move
Attack-Swift-Swift

Looks like the only difference between that and Saga is the ability to make three move actions in a round. So why not just say that instead of having the long, somewhat confusing list?

 

[FadedC]

Using fire against trolls is very "D&D" to me.

I'll be sad to see it go, if that's the case.

Except in practice nobody ever used fire against them in the actual combat (except as an incidental thing), it was just a matter of knocking them down with regular damage and then burning the body once the combat was over.

 

[Cadfan]

Yeah, the fire thing doesn't work right because its unlikely your party as a whole can do all the trolls hit points in fire damage, and as long as the troll has at least 5 points of normal damage on him, he gets his regeneration.

I'd just as soon see the troll get something like DR 20- Fire, Fast Healing 1.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Is there really much difference, mechanically, to being able to heal 20 hit points as an immediate action once and simply giving the monster 20 more hit points?

I don't know yet. It probably depends a lot on how many other options for immediate actions exist.

A key advantage might be that you know that a creature has an immediate action (because that is a general rule), and you are less prone to forget them then passive actions (I often forget applying Regeneration or Fast Healing values, though that is relatively easy compensate. It's more difficult with special actions like flaming auras, skin that corrodes weapons on touch and similar effects)