New modules with 1E feel??

[Altalazar]

Ok, I'm weak and you convinced me - I'm going to get a sampling of all of the above mentioned modules and see for myself if they really get that old feel back. As someone said above, it is a combination of things that give that feel - the look, the high content to low page numbers, the open-ended feel, the lack of linear storylines or specific settings. I always liked that about the old modules.

 

[johnsemlak]

I think, when people are talking about 1e feel, they are talking about modules that evoke a fairly specific group of modules from the late 70's and early 80's, the list most likely containing the following:

A1,2,3,4 - Slavers series
B1 - In Search of the Unknown
B2 - Keep on the Borderland
B3 - Palace of the Silver Princess
B4 - Lost City
C1 - Hidden Shrine of Tomoachan
C2 - Ghost Tower of Inverness
D1-2,3 - Drow Series
G1-2-3 - Against the Giants
I1 - Dwellers of the Forbidden City
L1 - Secret of Bone Hill
N1 - Cult of the Reptile God
Q1 - Queen of the Demonweb Pits
S1 - Tomb of Horror
S2 - White Plume Mountain
S3 - Expedition to Barrier Peaks
S4/WG4 - Tsojcanth/Tharizdun combo
T1 - Village of Hommlet
X1 - Isle of Dread
X2 - Castle Amber

Superficially, these all have the same artistic deisign, format, and layout - i.e. brightly colored painted picture on front and back, slash on the upper left front, number-letter code, gatefold cover with mono-colored (either b/w or blue/w) maps on the inside, sparse art on the inside which was always black and white ink prints. An absolutely excellent group of artists worked on these - Otus, Rosloff, Dee, DSL, Willingham, some of Easley's early work, etc.

Outside the superficial art/design commonalities, these modules had the following:
1. They were short, generally 32 pages, but had a ton stuffed into them. Usually 9 or 10 point font, with 1/2" or less margins. Not a whole bunch of space used on monsters or NPC stat-blocks.
2. They weren't campaign setting specific. Sure, they generally told you where they could be located in Greyhawk or the Known World, but they were generic enough to be plopped down anywhere in a DM's campaign setting. They didn't assume that you had additional campaign oriented material (mainly because they hadn't printed any additional campaign oriented material for half this stuff).
3. Low plot content. Very non-linear. They essentially gave the DM a micro-setting, and left it up to the DM and players to determine why the PC's were there and what they were going to do.
4. Highly expandable. The DM could use them fine as written as a couple session adventure, but had enough guidance to base an entire campaign off of them.


R.A.

I think that's an excellent summary of '1e feel'.

I'd like to add a small bit to your 'highly expandable' point. Many of the classic mods specifically had undeveloped areas available for the DM do with as they pleased. I'm thinking in particular of b2, which had that entrance to a cave complex that was completely unmapped. X1 had large undeveloped areas and left the whole Kopru thing a complete mystery for the DM to develop.

 

[der_kluge]

1e feel:

Blatant disregard for ecology.
Bad interior art.
Bad layout design.
Weak plot.


That sums it up, I think.

 

[rogueattorney]

1e feel:

Blatant disregard for ecology.
Bad interior art.
Bad layout design.
Weak plot.

That sums it up, I think.

Yup, and adventure modules published beginning in oh, about 1984 until recently, with their "well-thought-out" ecology [whatever that's supposed to mean, in a world of dragons, beholders, and half-orcs], "exquisite" art [entirely subjective - I think Otus is a genius and Elmore's a hack, others think quite the opposite], wonderful use of space [meaning broad margins, gigantic font, and other padding], and "superb", "believable", and "well-written" story-lines [meaning being rail-roaded through pure, unmitigated drek unworthy of a bad romance novel] sold SOOOOOO well, that the makers of D&D decided not to make modules any more.

R.A.

 

[Treebore]

1e feel:

Blatant disregard for ecology.
Bad interior art.
Bad layout design.
Weak plot.


That sums it up, I think.

Then that isn't Necromancer. They give you good design, not perfect, but good. Good story. Good maps. Good/great art. Leave the adventure open enough for the DM to add/modify till I am happy.

My favorites are Grey Citadel, tomb of Abysthor, Crucible of Freya (especially with all the downloads), Rappan Athuk 1 through 3 (to be revised and reprinted, hopefully in the next 12 to 15 months), Lost City of Barakus, and Lamentation of Thieves. All of their modules are good. These are the ones I like the most. The ones I like the least are the Maze of Zayene series and Necropolis.

I also suggest checking out Troll Lords Games modules and Fiery Dragons NeMorens Vault and the "Skull" one. Sorry, i do not remember its full title. I have also been told their "Of Sound Mind" is good.

I also like Goodman Games.

By the way I am a module nut, and I own every one by Necro, Goodman, and the Troll's. Since I "expect" to modify anything I buy, module or otherwise, I tend to have a better opinion about modules than others. I also own most of Kenzers Kalamar modules and I own all of WOTC's series as well as the RttToEE mega-module. Plus many others. So if you want an opinion about any of those ask. Or find and read the reviews here on Enworld, if they have one.

 

[Melan]

rogueattorney: hear, hear!

 

[der_kluge]

WoTC doesn't make very many modules because there's no money in it. It's a big reason why they created the d20 license. Because they decided to allow d20 publishers to create all those modules for them.

Turns out, most d20 publishers figured out that there isn't any money to be made in modules either, so now most of them put out sourcebooks.

 

[Crothian]

I like the modules that feel like sourcebooks. They usually have enough of a module for the core adventure and then enough extra material so the book just sit on my bookself from then on. I really like Open World Press' modules for their towns described more then the adventure. The towns are rich and detailed and great to use as for an extended period of time.

 

[rogueattorney]

WoTC doesn't make very many modules because there's no money in it. It's a big reason why they created the d20 license. Because they decided to allow d20 publishers to create all those modules for them.

Turns out, most d20 publishers figured out that there isn't any money to be made in modules either, so now most of them put out sourcebooks.

Why is there no money in making modules? Well, obviously, not enough people buy them to make them profitable. The numbers speak for themselves.

Does this mean that the adventure module, in and of itself, is a bad idea? Or is there something else going on? I honestly don't know.

What I do know, is that the modules produced by TSR from about 1979-1982 were published in incredible numbers, such that they are still widely and cheaply available, and are still used by players of all editions in converted form. If it hadn't sold in the first place, B2 wouldn't have gone through 6 printings, C1 wouldn't have gone through 5 printings, S1 and D3 wouldn't have gone through 7 printings, etc., etc.

After 1983 or so, module format began to change. Epic, linear (or rail-roaded, if you prefer), narration heavy format became the theme of the day. I6 Ravenloft was the prototype, and the original Dragonlance series became the epitome. The general content also began to decrease in depth and quality - compare B2 and B4 to latter B-series modules like B8 and B9 if you want a good contrast. This general decline in module quality was pretty constant up to the end of 2e. (Ask a 1e fan about classic modules and he'll talk your ear off - ask a 2e fan about classic modules and he'll list some 1e modules then have trouble coming up with a half dozen 2e mods half of which are those "Return to" 1e modules.)

So, when people say that modules don't sell, what are they talking about? Are they talking about all modules, or are they talking about the modules being produced in the last 15 years or so of the hobbey?

By saying 1) 1e-style modules are bad, and 2) modules don't make any money, you're missing the whole point. 1e modules did sell. Then they stopped making them like that. Then people stopped buying modules.

Goodman, Necro, et al, are testing the market under the theory that people will buy old styled modules. They aren't trying to sell to people who don't like the old style, because, apparently, those people don't buy modules in enough numbers to make it worth while.

R.A.

 

[jester47]

WoTC doesn't make very many modules because there's no money in it. It's a big reason why they created the d20 license. Because they decided to allow d20 publishers to create all those modules for them.

Turns out, most d20 publishers figured out that there isn't any money to be made in modules either, so now most of them put out sourcebooks.

Actually, Clark Peterson of Necromancer Games has stated that they DO make money off of thier modules (in fact sourcebooks from NG are fairly rare). The Dungeon Crawl Classics from Goodman Games are one of the top sellers at my FLGS. They keep having to reorder them. As are the modules adapted from the fighting fantasy series.

Why are these sucessful and the others not? The answer is so simple that many companies run right over it. People want stuff they can fit into any campaign. The things that you listed in Die Kluge's previous post are pretty much what makes a good module. No plot, or ecology. Thats for the DM to figure out. What most DMs want in a module is not the story. They already have the story. They just need a place and some monsters to give thier story some detail and maybe a few side plots.

Over the years the more plot and logic was added to modules the more unpopular they got. The plots to Grey Citadel, Larin Karr, Crucible, Abysthor, and Rappan Athuk (if it even had one) can be completely ignored and the modules will still run fine if a DM is using them for locations that he puts other plots around. Nope, plot and ecology are the PROBLEMS.

Take any 3e module that did not sell, and you will find that it 1. made sense ecologically so much to the point that there was nothing really interesting going on, 2. Was so tied to a plot that the module was useless if you did not use the plot provided.

NG and gooman have modules that:

Allow for replotting.
Canibalisation.
Have interesting things in them.

Both Goodman and NG modules sell. This is from my FLGS owner, the owners of those companies, and my own experience from talking to other gamers. The reasons other companies cant sell modules is because they don't understand how to make them. TSR/Wizards (except for a few rare ones like Sunless, Fury, Haunted Halls, and Shattered Circle) forgot how.

If you stop trying to tell a story and make modules like they did before 1984 they will sell.

Aaron.