New PC Brainstorming

[AbdulAlhazred]

Its true that Starlock is generally considered the most problematic of all builds in 4e. Its still pretty a pretty awesome one. I think a lot of the real interest has to come from story. You have this guy that is somehow made a deal with something from OUTSIDE. Its just story gold.

In terms of playing it, I really rather advise assuming your CHA (in this case) is just not going to factor into combat. You CAN boost it ever chance you get, but you'll be perpetually inaccurate with CHA based powers. Its a nice theory that they may be worth using now and then, but the truth is its not often worth targeting a weaker NAD when you effectively get a -1 to-hit. Better to stay totally with CON based powers. Plenty of the Infernal oriented powers work fine for a starlock, though the feylock powers are more thematic if you ask me.

2 things are really required to remain entirely competitive. You need good items. Get one of the rods from AV1 like a Rod of Reaving or Rod of Dark Reward. Good power/feat selection helps too. You probably will want one or two of the mechanically useful feats. Depending on what items you have will help decide which feats you take.

The starlock in our group is great fun, and as I've said a few times in other threads he's quite effective. It took him a few sessions to really get into the groove of it, but now he has lots of fun.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I realize its early on, but so far, I'm pleased with the approach I've taken.

The only power I didn't use was the Eldritch Blast: too many high-dex targets. The Cha powers, despite being down a point relative to the Con ones, were still quite effective. The flexibility element of the build- being able to target Fort, Ref, and Will with powers- actually mattered. Without the Cha powers, I'd just have been spamming one power all night.

While we're only PHB1 at the moment, this is still the trial period. Not everyone in the group could make it, so we're going to have at least one more trial session. In addition, the overall experience was positive enough that the guys are talking about chipping in to get a DDI subscription for the group.

Since I'm the lone Mac dude, I'll be using books. That's cool with me, since I prefer them...AND I have a knack for getting deals. Just picked up AV1 & 2, MP1, AP1, DP1 and PP1 for about $70 off. Coupled with the 3 PHBs and FR and Eberron's player guides and I have a nice base to work with.

Still, whether we actually venture beyond the PHB1 remains in the DM's hands. Personally, I'm lobbying for some expansion, since some of the options (certain classes, certain races, Hybrids) would appeal FAR more to some of the players than the PHB1 options.

Myself included.

However, I don't have any plans to do anything more than play my Dwarf Starlock until he's killed off. I like the character- one part Crawford Tillinghast (or almost any other Mythos protagonist), one part Chosen of the Ellcrys, one part "dwarf's dwarf"- so I'll find powers that I'll enjoy working with. I may change out some powers if we get to use the Powers books, and I may lobby for getting a pact hammer, but that's about it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

A pact hammer wouldn't be bad. There are of course inevitably a few optimization oriented feats from here and there you MIGHT want too (a few you could get now, like Weapon Focus for that pact hammer if you get one, or for a pact blade). Personally IF I were the DM I'd just throw out a Pact Axe! . Dunno why there are so many odd restrictions on types of weapon enchantments...

It sounds like a fun character. Keep us informed about how it goes. Your posts have always been amongst the more interesting ones

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A pact hammer wouldn't be bad. There are of course inevitably a few optimization oriented feats from here and there you MIGHT want too (a few you could get now, like Weapon Focus for that pact hammer if you get one, or for a pact blade). Personally IF I were the DM I'd just throw out a Pact Axe! . Dunno why there are so many odd restrictions on types of weapon enchantments...

The guy who is running 4Ed is the newest member of the group, so I don't have a real read on how he likes to run his games. He seems pretty cool, though.

But the fact of the matter is this: even though I don't like 4Ed as a DM, and I find certain design decisions to be radically at odds with what I want in D&D, its a good enough game to play, and I'll play anything with good people. And he definitely qualifies.

Besides, I figure that if I don't like what is being run, there are 2 solutions: run something else or don't show up.

Again, though, I don't think that's going to be a problem.

Which is all a long-winded and circuitous way of saying I don't anticipate there being a problem with my PC getting some kind of appropriate gear along the way. The existence of the pact hammer is why I'm using a Warhammer now and why I'll probably have a Maul next level.

The thing I'm puzzling over at the moment, though, is what happens if/when he expands the sourcebook list. I'm sure we'll get the other 2 PHBs, so I'm wondering what Magnus Skyhammer would look like as a Hybrid Starlock/Ranger as opposed to a multiclassed one. Since the DM still has my PHBs, I can only speculate, but as I recall, the Hybrid versions of Warlock's Curse and Hunter's Quarry are a bit more limited...I think to class-specific powers/attacks.

It sounds like a fun character. Keep us informed about how it goes. Your posts have always been amongst the more interesting ones

I've been saying it for some time now: we need a smiley for "getting a fat head"...'cause I'd be using it right now. Thanks for the complement!

You ever watch Red Green?

The main character often says "If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."

My modus operandi here is similar:

"If other posters don't find you helpful, they should at least find you interesting."


And vice versa.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

YMMV, and indeed I hope it does... I would LOVE to hear about how to play a starlock right and how you've fallen in love with the class. Already, you've dealt with one of my major iritations by having a con and cha that are much closer, though I'm worried about your ability to hit generally (my con was the same as yours, my cha was simply much higher). That said, I'm still of the opinion that the starlock is the worst build in the game.

Of the PCs I've seen in play, I think the 2WF Ranger impressed me the most. Again, the caveat is that the guy playing it was the only one who rolled decently the entire night...on OUR side of the DM's screen, that is.

As for the Warlock itself...the jury is still out, obviously, but I have to say that I greatly prefer the 4Ed version to the 3.X one at this point, hands down.

 

[Obryn]

Which is all a long-winded and circuitous way of saying I don't anticipate there being a problem with my PC getting some kind of appropriate gear along the way. The existence of the pact hammer is why I'm using a Warhammer now and why I'll probably have a Maul next level.

Nice. Well, if the sourcebook list is expanded to include AV, be sure to pick up Dwarven Weapon Training post-haste and grab a Pact Mordenkrad instead. If you're unaware, a Mordenkrad is to a Maul as a Bastard Sword is to a Longsword - a superior version of the weapon. Mordenkrads are fun, though - you can reroll any 1's on damage. Normally, it takes a feat to learn them - but if you're taking Dwarven Weapon Training already, you get them and craghammers (superior warhammers) as a free bonus.

Once you get the pact hammer - if you do - you can also add that +2 to damage to your implement attacks.

The thing I'm puzzling over at the moment, though, is what happens if/when he expands the sourcebook list. I'm sure we'll get the other 2 PHBs, so I'm wondering what Magnus Skyhammer would look like as a Hybrid Starlock/Ranger as opposed to a multiclassed one. Since the DM still has my PHBs, I can only speculate, but as I recall, the Hybrid versions of Warlock's Curse and Hunter's Quarry are a bit more limited...I think to class-specific powers/attacks.

Well, think about how MAD you are now, needing Con, Int, and Cha to be a Starlock. Now ponder adding Str and maybe Wis to that list for your Ranger stuff. I'd stick with the multiclass; starlocks are already challenging, and this'd make it crazier. Try out a Ranger as a later character if Magnus offs it.

It's a shame starlocks are so wonky. They are, frankly, one of the class builds that sold me on 4e. "Wait, I can get into a pact with Yog-Sothoth?! Sold!" So I'm glad you're having a blast with them; they are too cool to go unused.

-O

 

[Obryn]

Of the PCs I've seen in play, I think the 2WF Ranger impressed me the most. Again, the caveat is that the guy playing it was the only one who rolled decently the entire night...on OUR side of the DM's screen, that is.

2WF Rangers are among the biggest glass cannons in the game. They will lay down some serious damage, but unless they're well-defended, they die really quickly. Their defenses tend towards the pathetic for a melee character, their HPs are middling, and they get hosed on healing surges.

But still, I think they consistently come out on top as far as damage-dealers go.

-O

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Nice. Well, if the sourcebook list is expanded to include AV, be sure to pick up Dwarven Weapon Training post-haste and grab a Pact Mordenkrad instead. If you're unaware, a Mordenkrad is to a Maul as a Bastard Sword is to a Longsword - a superior version of the weapon. Mordenkrads are fun, though - you can reroll any 1's on damage. Normally, it takes a feat to learn them - but if you're taking Dwarven Weapon Training already, you get them and craghammers (superior warhammers) as a free bonus.

Hmmm...sounds nice. And since there's a Dwarven warrior type in the party- the player likes the Dwarf aspect, he's just not 100% clear on which warrior class he likes the most (Fighter? Paladin? Only time will tell)- I'm sure there will be some nice axes & hammers handed out over the course of the game.

Well, think about how MAD you are now, needing Con, Int, and Cha to be a Starlock. Now ponder adding Str and maybe Wis to that list for your Ranger stuff. I'd stick with the multiclass; starlocks are already challenging, and this'd make it crazier. Try out a Ranger as a later character if Magnus offs it.

Well, he's already got 14s in everything except Con 16 and Dex 8. As long as he's not an Archer, he may just be fine.

It's a shame starlocks are so wonky. They are, frankly, one of the class builds that sold me on 4e. "Wait, I can get into a pact with Yog-Sothoth?! Sold!" So I'm glad you're having a blast with them; they are too cool to go unused.

I won't say they couldn't have been better designed. But yeah- I'm a big Mythos fan, and I've always been a big fan of horror films. Starlock screamed Mythos + Phantasm to me.

OTOH, I've also got a couple of other designs bouncing in my head... That mix of Hellboy + Hellraiser has some definite appeal to me.

2WF Rangers are among the biggest glass cannons in the game. They will lay down some serious damage, but unless they're well-defended, they die really quickly. Their defenses tend towards the pathetic for a melee character, their HPs are middling, and they get hosed on healing surges.

I'll have to keep my eye out for that. The guy playing it is a martial artist, so he actually grasped its mechanics pretty quickly, shifting when he should, attacking when he should...but right now, without a leader/healer of any kind, he could get in trouble rather quickly.

And in play, my PC was more concerned with trying to help the Dwarf warrior get into position than watching what was going on in Ranger land. OTOH, in play, the Dwarf had a bullseye painted on him while the Ranger was as untouchable as the wind.

Perhaps in the future, I'll act more like I'm a sniper providing covering fire for his advances, and letting the tank fare for himself.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I would LOVE to hear about how to play a starlock right and how you've fallen in love with the class. Already, you've dealt with one of my major iritations by having a con and cha that are much closer, though I'm worried about your ability to hit generally (my con was the same as yours, my cha was simply much higher). That said, I'm still of the opinion that the starlock is the worst build in the game.

So far, so good, IMHO. I'm still encountering some annoyances, but the feel is good.

1. Still not hitting as often as I like- just 4 hits in 2 encounters- but hitting VERY hard. With Warlock's Curse AND Hunter's Quarry, I had hits of 18 in one and 19 points in another... But the misses are due more to poor rolls than only having a 16 in my relevant stats. My guy has Improved Fate of the Void, and even with a +6 Att, unleashing his daily, I managed to uncork a roll of 6- not enough to hit.
2. The Warhammer has come in handy more than a few times when foes have managed to close on Magnus and he couldn't get away. It was especially useful when an unseen foe actually cut him off from the party. Based on experiences so far, I'm definitely going to get that Dwarven Weapon training to get access to a Craghammer or some such. I still need to boost my AC, though, so I'm still giving AP: Chainmail serious consideration.
3. The skill selection has proven to be extremely handy. An Intimidate roll caused some foes to stall their attack. A Dungeoneering roll- a skill I got due to multiclassing in Ranger (which I was mocked for)- turned an encounter in a room full of various unknown fungi into something manageable: there were dangerous shrooms within, and had Magnus not IDed them, it would have been a lot like fighting in a minefield.

FWIW, I'm trying to sort out his next level of power.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/294837-starlock-power-choices.html

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks for the report back. I'm very happy it is working out for you.

And its great when unconventional choices work out... kuddos to you!