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[Exen Trik]

"The Human fighter picked an ability that lets him do strength damage even if he misses."
The gamist rationalization hurts my brain.

It might not be too bad, if you also need to beat the targets reflex score. Then its just a matter of hitting the guy hard enough to hurt him through the armor, which is actually rather realistic so long as the weapon has some weight behind it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

"The Human fighter picked an ability that lets him do strength damage even if he misses."
The gamist rationalization hurts my brain.

Meh. Given that D&D has always rationalized the attack roll as not merely rolling to hit, but rolling to determine if you hit hard enough to punch through defenses and do damage, I really don't have any problem with the notion of a few powers that deal damage even on a miss.

If it became the default, or if lots of (non-magical) powers did so, yeah, I'd object. But one or a small number of 'em? Not so much.

 

[Irda Ranger]

It might not be too bad, if you also need to beat the targets reflex score. Then its just a matter of hitting the guy hard enough to hurt him through the armor, which is actually rather realistic so long as the weapon has some weight behind it.

Ok, fair enough. That makes some sense.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I like pretty much everything about 4E. It's like Wizards is chockful of guys, just like us, who gets payed to make this stuff up.

-It can't fail.

 

[wedgeski]

Okay, so they seem to be pleased so far with 7th-10th level. How about the higher levels (like for example 14-18)? Epic levels (26-30)? They'll need to test these levels too, to see if the game still works.

You don't say! Get an email into Wizards fast, man, we only have a few months!

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Can you recall where Dave Noonan wrote that? I can't find it here on ENWorld, at least under the WotC_Dave account, and I don't know if he uses any others.

The Druid would certainly smooth a lot of ruffled feathers, I think.

It was a Pre-Gleemax blog, and it might not have been noonan.

 

[Green Knight]

Meh. Given that D&D has always rationalized the attack roll as not merely rolling to hit, but rolling to determine if you hit hard enough to punch through defenses and do damage, I really don't have any problem with the notion of a few powers that deal damage even on a miss.

Yeah, that's the way I've viewed it for years. Just because you roll a miss doesn't mean you actually miss. It can also mean that the other guys armor absorbed the blow. For example, how I used to describe it back when I DMed...

PLAYER: I'm gonna shoot him with my longbow. What do I need to roll?
ME: You need to beat a 16 or better.
PLAYER: *rolls* Damn. 11.
ME: Alright. Your arrow strikes the Anti-Paladin, but it bounces off of his thick suit of full plate, leaving only the smallest of dents in the armor.

So in this case, one can assume that it means that a Fighter with that ability always hits. The question is, does he only land a glancing blow, or does he land a telling blow?

Anyway, as for the classes, the current list appears to be thus...

DEFENDER
Fighter (Martial)
Paladin (Divine)

STRIKER
Rogue (Martial)
Ranger (Divine)
Warlock (Arcane)

LEADER
Warlord (Martial)
Cleric (Divine)

CONTROLLER
Wizard (Arcane)

I really like how it's shaping up. If they were to make an Arcane Defender, Arcane Leader, Martial Controller, and Divine Controller, then I'd be filled with a huge amount of glee. I love the idea of one of each type of those characters being represented in every category. It'd be great because you can have a wellrounded party, and have them all be characters with a divine origin. Or hell, have them all be martial in a non-magic setting. A setting which just has Fighters, Rogues, Warlords, and X (A Martial Controller) would be pretty cool. Although how would one have a Martial Controller? How can a guy with no magic get that kind of job done?

Anyway, I doubt that there'll be just the one Controller in the PHB. While I'd rather it just disappear, the Sorcerer is another possibility to fill in that slot. Yeah, it'd make for two Arcane Controllers, but if they can't come up with a Martial Controller that makes sense, then it's better to have a bit more variety there. Although I do like the supposition of some folks around here that the Druid will be a Divine Controller. That'd be sweet. God knows I'd love to have the Druid in the first PHB. I never actually play them, but I like them. They bring a lot to the game and give it a nice bit of character.

But anyway, if I had MY way, then this is how the class list in the first PHB would look like.

DEFENDER
Martial - Fighter
Divine - Paladin
Arcane - Hexblade (Or maybe the Spellsword, made into a fullfledged class rather then a Prestige Class)

LEADER
Martial - Warlord
Divine - Cleric
Arcane - Sorcerer

STRIKER
Martial - Rogue
Divine - Ranger
Arcane - Warlock

CONTROLLER
Martial - (No clue. Factotum, maybe? Not familiar with the class, so I can't really say. Or maybe a nonmagical Bard? Eh, stupid idea)
Divine - Druid
Arcane - Wizard

 

[Goken100]

"The Human fighter picked an ability that lets him do strength damage even if he misses."
The gamist rationalization hurts my brain.

There's no way I'm allowing that in my game. It's the Magic Missile of melee combat; it breaks the rules. I can only hope that the instances of this mechanic are few enough that they're easy to remove.

 

[Baby Samurai]

But anyway, if I had MY way, then this is how the class list in the first PHB would look like.

1.) DEFENDER
Arcane - Hexblade (Or maybe the Spellsword, made into a fullfledged class rather then a Prestige Class)


2.) LEADER
Arcane - Sorcerer


3.) STRIKER
Divine - Ranger


4.) CONTROLLER
Martial - (No clue. Factotum, maybe? Not familiar with the class, so I can't really say. Or maybe a nonmagical Bard? Eh, stupid idea)

1.) I heard talk of a swordmage class?


2.) I would say Bard


3.) I will be sorely disappointed if the ranger is divine related, as I have always detested the spellcasting aspect of the ranger (since 1st Ed).


4.) I've heard interesting proposals for the monk to be a controller.

 

[Khuxan]

CONTROLLER
Martial - (No clue. Factotum, maybe? Not familiar with the class, so I can't really say. Or maybe a nonmagical Bard? Eh, stupid idea)

Knight, Monk, Warblade/Swordsage with the appropriate manuevers. Are there any other candidates I've missed?