new preview DMG2

[ExploderWizard]

errr.... did you read the preview? From your comment it sounds like you just read the above list. Probably best to do before throwing out comments willy-nilly.

Yup. Read the whole thing. One chapter not to my taste won't keep me from checking out the rest of the previews though.

 

[avin]

Yup. Read the whole thing. One chapter not to my taste won't keep me from checking out the rest of the previews though.

Just curious (seriously): you don't like roleplaying?

One of my groups just don't like roleplaying at all.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Just curious (seriously): you don't like roleplaying?

One of my groups just don't like roleplaying at all.

I love roleplaying, why would you think I wouldn't. Collaborative storytelling and roleplaying are not one and the same.

I love the card based "Once Upon A Time" game. That is a great game of collaborative storytelling, but it is not a roleplaying game. The players are not roleplaying the story elements on the cards. For example, if I draw the Old Man card, I try and work an old man into the ongoing story. I don't roleplay the actions of an old man.

While playing a D&D character I make decisions and take courses of action as the character. I am adventuring. If I stop and consider my actions from a story (3rd person) point of view then I have ceased roleplaying. Likewise if I take actions that I think would make for a cool story even though they don't feel right for my character then I have stopped roleplaying. If everyone just roleplays, relaxes and has fun then the story will write itself.

 

[AllisterH]

Just curious (seriously): you don't like roleplaying?

One of my groups just don't like roleplaying at all.

*In before the lock*

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Keep in mind, for many people, the issue is that "roleplaying" is NOT like combat and you can't effectively measure it (one of the reasons why I tend to look askew at things like the World of Darkness mechanics that supposedly encourage roleplaying).

Personally, I'm on the fence about this personally, but I once again, love the fact that D&D is actually talking/giving advice for those people that actually enjoy this.

The DMG1 and now the DMG2 look to be the best set of DMguides ever (sorry 1st edition DMG) in actually teaching players how to be good-to-great DMs.

(I've always believed that the biggest drawback to D&D isn't the player side of the table but the DM side of the table. Making DMing fun, interesting, rewarding and something that a new player can feel comfortable with and you're going to have much less people migrating to WoW...I've never had a problem finding players, it was always finding DMs IMO)

 

[Barastrondo]

Everything on the preview list looks interesting except Ch.1 Group Storytelling. What has that got to do with running a D&D game?

In the sense that "our personal style is to have finding out who the character you are act as part of the exploration angle of the game," not much. In the sense that "our personal style is for players to create the characters they'd like to play and face challenges that are personally relevant to those characters and their personalities," it's rather topical.

Not everyone came to the game, even back in the dawn of time, from the perspective of "You explore the dungeon because it is there." Some folks always asked "why?"

"Why are we risking our lives in this dungeon?"
"Because there is money to be had in there."
"Why do we want money that bad?"

And with that answer, play style diverges. Sometimes it's "Because you advance in experience points by getting treasure, so money = powerups." Sometimes it's "Because I identify with fictional characters who chase money and would like to build a character along those lines." But you also get "If I'm going to be risking my life for that money, there must be something about my background that implies why I'd do such a crazy thing instead of getting an honest job." And although that last can still adhere to finding out more about your character as it goes on, the motivations you come up with may suggest more conflicts that aren't going to come up in the dungeon if the DM doesn't know about them beforehand.

You also can't rule out availability of time as a serious incentive to apply more metagaming as the hobby grays. "Maybe we have a good story at the end of it all and maybe we don't" is a gamble not everyone's willing to make with the time they can scrounge from jobs and families. Some folks want to make the best of that time, and that may mean pursuing more metafictional activity to make sure they're getting the kind of game they know they enjoy instead of just waiting to see. Naturally, if "waiting to see" is the kind of game you know you enjoy, you're already set. But not everyone's wired that way.

 

[ExploderWizard]

In the sense that "our personal style is to have finding out who the character you are act as part of the exploration angle of the game," not much. In the sense that "our personal style is for players to create the characters they'd like to play and face challenges that are personally relevant to those characters and their personalities," it's rather topical.

Not everyone came to the game, even back in the dawn of time, from the perspective of "You explore the dungeon because it is there." Some folks always asked "why?"

"Why are we risking our lives in this dungeon?"
"Because there is money to be had in there."
"Why do we want money that bad?"

If I understand what you are saying (please correct me if you believe I don't) then you are speaking of character based motivations to adventuring. That is truly a great thing and you misunderstand my meaning if you believe that it has no place in D&D. These motivations can provide an excellent foundation for roleplaying and in no way mean that players approaching the game with such motivation for thier characters have to play the game as a collaborative storytelling exercise.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I quite enjoyed this chapter. I am glad to see narrative and collabrative storytelling is getting a focus in DMG2. The chapter basically sums up tons of the methods and ideas I use in my gaming, so this will be something extremely useful to take ideas from, and recalibrate sessions and ideas I have.

I always felt too, just the way 4e is built and the feel of it that it is a D&D edition that can really get behind such a style of gaming and glad to see such support.

 

[Mallus]

I thought it was a game of heroic fantasy wherein the players roleplay fictional characters having adventures.

It is. How can you 'role-play fictional characters having adventures' and not be engaged in the act of storytelling? What are you doing, laying bricks? Making omelets?

Group storytelling would come later as the participants tell the tale of thier escapades at a con or something.

You're making a story as you play. Even if your character is named 'Bob 4 the Fighter' and the story consists of nothing more than navigating the corridors of a dungeon and whacking the occasional orc.

Fictional character + fictional environment + doing stuff = story.

Why do people insist on insisting that something is a story only when it's completed? Can't we call it a story as it's being written/created/played out/made up on the spot?

(sorry... pet peeve of mine... morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet)

 

[Remathilis]

Everything on the preview list looks interesting except Ch.1 Group Storytelling. What has that got to do with running a D&D game?

Umm... you know there are people who enjoy playing D&D in ways different from yours, right? Why shouldn't they get a chapter in the DMG? (I mean, the powergamers have had the magic-item chapter for decades...)

 

[Barastrondo]

If I understand what you are saying (please correct me if you believe I don't) then you are speaking of character based motivations to adventuring. That is truly a great thing and you misunderstand my meaning if you believe that it has no place in D&D. These motivations can provide an excellent foundation for roleplaying and in no way mean that players approaching the game with such motivation for thier characters have to play the game as a collaborative storytelling exercise.

Right. I absolutely agree — nobody should have to play the game as a collaborative storytelling exercise if that's not their bag. But neither should others play it as a "just see what happens, maybe narrative arises and maybe it doesn't" if that's not their bag.

Individual character motivation is great, and I don't believe you were saying that it has no place. However, addressing the concept of collaborative storyteling may provide an approach that works better for some groups. If you have, for instance, a character who was a former criminal syndicate enforcer and is now on the run from them, a chapter on said collaborative storytelling might provide a variety of ways for the entire group to benefit from that motivation and backstory. Similarly, it may provide more advice on how to intertwine that character's backstory in meaningful ways with the backstory of the alchemist seeking immortality, and the motivations of the paladin seeking atonement.

And providing such a chapter might provide groups with more encouragement to customize their characters and roleplay more. That is also a gain. I'm quite looking forward to see how they handle this.