New respect for crossbows

[s/LaSH]

To veer around vaguely off-topic: I heard somewhere that in certain parts of Britain it's still 'legal' to shoot a Welshman with a longbow.

But yes, crossbows are really the medieval shotgun. (Compared to the 'traditional' bow, which are more like rifles in terms of range.) It's times like these that I like to bring up the fact that the proportions of battle casualties actually dropped after the introduction of gunpowder to the battlefield. Bows are underrated, in my opinion.

Now to relate an interesting story about gun control:

Once upon a time, there was a land rife with murder and hatred. Guns were illegal, except in the hands of the military force that oversaw the region. The commander decided to make it illegal to carry arms only if they were concealed. The murder rate dropped suddenly.

This land was Israel, about 55 years ago when the population was quite a mixture of factions, under Field Marshall Montgomery. Draw what conclusions you will from that...

 

[Mercule]

Exactly. And you see nothing incorporating it either.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


----

The "people" are the populace. The "states" are the states. The fact that "the people" does not equate to "the states" is made clear by their separate enumeration in Amendment 10.

The 2nd Amendment clearly gives the "right to bear arms" to the people, not the states. If it had been refering to the states, it would have said "the right to organize militias" rather than the "right to bear arms". The phrase "bear arms" is nonsensical when combined with "states" ("the states bear arms"?).

If someone disagrees that individuals _should_ be allowed to own firearms, that's fine. I honestly have no problem with that -- and there may be a case for your position. Unfortunately, the 2nd Amendment provides for that right. Feel free to try to pass an amendment -- it's happened 27 times before.

 

[BOZ]

I thought our perception of the Aussies was that they're all Convicts? At least, thats what I gathered from The Simpsons yesterday.

once upon a time, they all were.

 

[willpax]

Although I hate to continue a thread hijack and don't want to veer too far into politics, I would like to make one observation:

The problem with the Second Amendment as currently written is that it is an poorly constructed sentence. The first bit ("well-regulated militia") and the second bit ("the right of the people") are in the same sentence, implying that they are somehow all part of the same idea, but the exact relationship between the ideas isn't clearly spelled out.

This was probably the result of some committee decision.

It also means that the exact meaning of the amendment isn't totally clear, and will only be thrashed out over time in the courts.

But how 'bout that crossbow! I'm glad no one was killed.

 

[Wolf72]

even though medieval crossbows were not as powerful, I can see why they would controlled ...

I wouldn't want my serfs or peasants able to take down my knights that easily ...

goes for bows too ...

although hunting bows I could see ... not as strong but enough to hunt game with

 

[Green Knight]

Edit: 8 Freaking pages of political comment deleted.

--Dinkeldog

 

[Wolf72]

... *wolf doesn't like the way this thread is going ... getting to legalese and american history-debatable*

 

[Thresher]

Back to the origional topic, it was a bit of a shock to hear someone had shot two little girls with a xbow of all things, mostly because theyre highly illegal in all Australian states. Though making something illegal dosnt mean it goes away, it just gets harder to obtain.

Crossbows are a very dangerous weapon, the catholic church banned them in the middle ages because they where considered inhumane to use on other christians, you could still shoot moors with one though I guess. Religions are funny like that, never did have much time for them myself.
Anyway, I made a few when I was younger. One was a big monster of a thing with a winch at one end and a cut down truck leaf spring as the bow. Had about 250pd tension on the steel cable that was its 'bowstring' and would quite happily go through up to 4 sheets of corrogated iron and up to about 20cm into a pine tree. Indeed, God help anything that got hit by it or was standing behind whoever got hit because they would have copped it too.

It is important to note that regardless of 'why' you own a lethal weapon, you can call it self defence, you can call it protection and you can call it a collectable.
Weapons only have one reason for being and that is to kill.

If they where there for just looking nice or protection they would be a guilded cage sold on an infomercial
(read into that what you will)

Anyway, I might not agree 100% with my country's gun laws but to be honest I dont trust 90% of the people I know, let alone anyone I dont know with a firearm, crossbow or let alone a sharp stick because the worlds full of idiots and the last thing I need is some dick-head contributing lethal force around me.

The Port Arthur massacre saw a big public swing against firearms ownership here, 35 people died and 18 where wounded. I agree with the idea of removing assault rifles out of civilian hands, they really dont belong in some societys.
But they went out and banned damn near everything else as well, so people that used to go hunting for sport like me, found it a lot harder.
(By sport I mean using a bolt action rifle to shoot animals and pests, not a friggen AK47 or M16)

Maybe we should have just disowned Tasmania instead

 

[Derulbaskul]

I thought our perception of the Aussies was that they're all Convicts? At least, thats what I gathered from The Simpsons yesterday.

Yes, but we're proud of that....

As for Australia's perception of America, yes, it is fair to say that many, perhaps even a majority, think that America is an extremely violent place: "Only in America", is a common refrain when strange or violent things are mentioned... and then surprise is expressed when it isn't America.

However, this is largely because the only news that makes it here is of the extreme kind. It works in reverse: after all, we have a land of baby-eating dingoes, don't we?

The only solution is to travel more... which reminds me that I have a stack of frequent flyer points about to expire....

Cheers
D

 

[Saeviomagy]

So we're a land of convicts...

Wait a minute, wasn't America ALSO a penal colony for a bit?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

As for crossbows - they're just as illegal as guns over here. Regular bows aren't illegal at all as far as purchase goes - but they're still fairly heavily regulated as far as what you can do with them.

Hell, I remember we had a tour at school once from a guy who did a lot of historical recreation stuff. He told us about a crossbow he made to some design that was supposedly from the appropriate time period. Before building it, he got a license, then called up the cops when it was finished to come see the test.

I think it shot through half a dozen sandbags and a steel plate. After the demonstration, he decided it was a little too dangerous, and tampered with it so it was inoperable.