D&D 5E New setting idea: What if potions were permanent...

[Sadrik]

Ok, so I was thinking about Alice in Wonderland and potions of diminution and what if there was a whole city of small people because they had become shrunken. I was thinking how would I get player characters into something like that. Potions have shorter durations typically. Then it occurred to me wow, if potions were a permanent duration that would significantly affect a setting. I suppose you would keep instantaneous potions as-is with no change but if you drank a potion of invisibility you would be permanently invisible, or a potion of gaseous form these could be almost a curse...

This also reminds me of the various bioshock games. Drink an elixir and gain a new ability as they permanently alter your DNA and modify your mind or body. Manifest telekinesis, fire manipulation, and other powers. Perhaps a potion of water breathing permanently gives you gills allowing you to breathe water. They are physically noticeable. You have have fire breath? Perhaps you literally have fire in your mouth as you talk.

So, if a setting like this were to be devised. Perhaps make them extremely common, anyone with the arcana skill can make them. The ingredients may be hard to get and expensive. What would the potion economy look like if you now gave permanent abilities. What about dispel magic, should it suppress or permanently remove these effects?

How does this change potions as a magic item? Further how would this affect a typical D&D setting? Should any of the current Potions/Oils/Elixirs be altered/removed to make this type of transition. For instance, Potions of Strength should not be simply permanent stat increases. Perhaps some potions become instantaneous and affect the creature for a limited time (in essence keeping it the same). Which ones?

Anyway so how about it, a world where potions are common and powerful. Drink a potion at your peril because it could alter you in ways that are not wanted. Bring on the alchemists. Your thoughts?

 

[Sunseeker]

I had a part of a setting that due to magical influence over the local water-supply (which had no real affect on it's own) magical potions that were made with its waters had longer effects. The duration could be made permanent if you drunk enough potions, but ex: something that lasts an hour lasts a day, something that lasts a day lasts a month. Repeated usage of potions was exponential and addictive.

I think that, since players lack the social-lives that normal people have, you're going to need some side effects that are targeted at adventurers. Being a gaseous cloud is a problem for a guy with a wife and kids. Not so much for a power-gaming player.

 

[EvanNave55]

Ok, so I was thinking about Alice in Wonderland and potions of diminution and what if there was a whole city of small people because they had become shrunken. I was thinking how would I get player characters into something like that. Potions have shorter durations typically. Then it occurred to me wow, if potions were a permanent duration that would significantly affect a setting. I suppose you would keep instantaneous potions as-is with no change but if you drank a potion of invisibility you would be permanently invisible, or a potion of gaseous form these could be almost a curse...

This also reminds me of the various bioshock games. Drink an elixir and gain a new ability as they permanently alter your DNA and modify your mind or body. Manifest telekinesis, fire manipulation, and other powers. Perhaps a potion of water breathing permanently gives you gills allowing you to breathe water. They are physically noticeable. You have have fire breath? Perhaps you literally have fire in your mouth as you talk.

So, if a setting like this were to be devised. Perhaps make them extremely common, anyone with the arcana skill can make them. The ingredients may be hard to get and expensive. What would the potion economy look like if you now gave permanent abilities. What about dispel magic, should it suppress or permanently remove these effects?

How does this change potions as a magic item? Further how would this affect a typical D&D setting? Should any of the current Potions/Oils/Elixirs be altered/removed to make this type of transition. For instance, Potions of Strength should not be simply permanent stat increases. Perhaps some potions become instantaneous and affect the creature for a limited time (in essence keeping it the same). Which ones?

Anyway so how about it, a world where potions are common and powerful. Drink a potion at your peril because it could alter you in ways that are not wanted. Bring on the alchemists. Your thoughts?

This sounds awsome! Though I agree it will probably take some work. Maybe in order to keep both temporary and permanent potions the only difference is quantity. Something like standard potions are a quarter cup where as to get it permanently you have to drink a quart within a certain period of time (I would recomend somewhere between 10 min. To an hour) quality could also be part of it. Id say dispell magic would temporarily suppress permanent potions, butyou could make potions of dispel magic that could wipe the slate clean, of course theyd have to cost quite a bit.

I had a part of a setting that due to magical influence over the local water-supply (which had no real affect on it's own) magical potions that were made with its waters had longer effects. The duration could be made permanent if you drunk enough potions, but ex: something that lasts an hour lasts a day, something that lasts a day lasts a month. Repeated usage of potions was exponential and addictive.

I think that, since players lack the social-lives that normal people have, you're going to need some side effects that are targeted at adventurers. Being a gaseous cloud is a problem for a guy with a wife and kids. Not so much for a power-gaming player.

I agree that some potions wouldn't seem to have downsides (like potions of str. Or other attributes) and other downsides wouldn't be quite as severe for PCs (like invisability) something like being a gaseous cloud would have major drawbacks such as being in able to cormmunicate with party members or interact with objects at this point you essentially have a floating consciousness incapable of doing anything but observe.

 

[Sunseeker]

I agree that some potions wouldn't seem to have downsides (like potions of str. Or other attributes) and other downsides wouldn't be quite as severe for PCs (like invisability) something like being a gaseous cloud would have major drawbacks such as being in able to cormmunicate with party members or interact with objects at this point you essentially have a floating consciousness incapable of doing anything but observe.

An easy solution would be to have potions only affect your biology. So armor and weapons would be unaffected. Yes you're invisible....but your clothes aren't. Being a gaseous cloud prevents you from wearing armor or interacting with objects.

Treat stat-bonus potions as cumulative. So when the +1 Str wears off, now you have to get a potion of +2 Str in order to get +1 and so on and so forth. It's the good old fashioned drug addiction problem.

 

[Sadrik]

I had a part of a setting that due to magical influence over the local water-supply (which had no real affect on it's own) magical potions that were made with its waters had longer effects. The duration could be made permanent if you drunk enough potions, but ex: something that lasts an hour lasts a day, something that lasts a day lasts a month. Repeated usage of potions was exponential and addictive.

I think that, since players lack the social-lives that normal people have, you're going to need some side effects that are targeted at adventurers. Being a gaseous cloud is a problem for a guy with a wife and kids. Not so much for a power-gaming player.

Yes I think some side effects to potions would make a lot of sense and addiction is a very interesting way to do it. I am also leaning that things like gaseous form and invisibility could be activated rather than always on. Improved invisibility is very powerful in combat. It would be better if it was not improved and when you attacked you became visible. Perhaps though, while visible you see creatures in another way that makes them horrifying and so you pretty much prefer to always be invisible, so you can see them in a "normal" way. With gaseous form it is pretty debilitating to be a cloud of gas. So maybe there is something that causes you to need to be a gas cloud like you can no longer breathe and you have to hold your breath when not in cloud form. Or you simply balance the invisibility by not ever being visible which effectively recuses you from much of the gameplay due to no one seeing you.

This sounds awsome! Though I agree it will probably take some work. Maybe in order to keep both temporary and permanent potions the only difference is quantity. Something like standard potions are a quarter cup where as to get it permanently you have to drink a quart within a certain period of time (I would recomend somewhere between 10 min. To an hour) quality could also be part of it.

Thanks.

Id say dispell magic would temporarily suppress permanent potions, butyou could make potions of dispel magic that could wipe the slate clean, of course theyd have to cost quite a bit.

Yes, I think ending the effect would be the way to go if these are considered spell effects. A successful dispel might end the effects and it would have to be activated again. If Dispel Magic spell is ruled to have no effect on something like this, then that would be ok too.

A clean slate potion would be a great idea too. This would allow a player to use a potion and then get rid of the negative effects. Not invisible forever... You can now permanently remove the effect.

PCs could just stack a zillion of these up. There has to be some sort of limit to these. Perhaps the mixing potions table comes in to this somehow. For each one you add roll on the mixing potions table. If you drink your first one, no roll but for each additional you roll for each potion including the first. For instance, if you add a third potion you roll three times, one for each potion.

An easy solution would be to have potions only affect your biology. So armor and weapons would be unaffected. Yes you're invisible....but your clothes aren't. Being a gaseous cloud prevents you from wearing armor or interacting with objects.

Ha! yeah that would be an interesting way to do it. I also think diminution would be a penalty in and of itself.

Treat stat-bonus potions as cumulative. So when the +1 Str wears off, now you have to get a potion of +2 Str in order to get +1 and so on and so forth. It's the good old fashioned drug addiction problem.

I like this so perhaps you do not have "tomes" instead you have these potions. Each adds +1 but you have to get a larger bonus one to get any bonus past +1. Then you have to eat liquorish every day or you take a level of fatigue. Things to spice up the character.

 

[Sunseeker]

Or you simply balance the invisibility by not ever being visible which effectively recuses you from much of the gameplay due to no one seeing you.

It wouldn't stop them from hearing you, which considering most D&D is based off a fantastical psuedo-medieval society where most people are stupid and scared of their own shadows, could be quite terrifying. A disembodied voice could lead to fantatical cultists following/attacking you for pretending to be their god. Religious persons could refuse to deal with the party if they heard the person speak or felt their presence (since being invisible doesn't cause you to stop taking up space).

I agree that like LOTR, perhaps being invisible via an incredibly amped-up potion isn't the same as being invisible via properly controlled magic, so perhaps you can see the dead (who are quite terrifying) or you can see some creatures from another realm that don't quite exist on your world. The keyword "shadow" comes to mind from MTG, creatures who were trapped in a non-physical state between dimensions who could sometimes be seen (as a blurry form in the corner of your eye) but not interacted with.

If we consider that sight works by receiving light, perhaps if you want a more "cursed" approach, being invisible would also make you blind, since the light of the world would no longer interact with ANY part of your body.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Potion of Diminution = The Borrowers (or more accurately, as this is D&D, The Takers and Despoilers). Could be fun!

Potion of Strength could be permanent, bug have downsides to continual chugging. If you saw the news about the Brazilian guy who injected himself with oils to make him look like The Hulk - do that. Freakish looks (-2 CHA per plus over 20), reduced mobility due to bulk (-2 DEX per plus over 20), reduced movement (-5' per plus over 20), plus armour wouldn't fit, and on a Crit fumble they'd crush their own weapon.

Or, go Hulk - apply Barbarian rules and they get the STR bonus but only when they're angry.

Invisibility - yep, standard Claude Rains storyline. I like the idea of being in the "shadows" when invisible, though logically that would mean anyone invisible would get bonuses to spot other invisible creatures and/or the undead/fey/extra planar depending in how you skin the "shadows", which might be too much of a bonus.

Gaseous Form - turned permanently into a fart. Unless the character is some kind of wizard/sorc/cleric/warlock but even then with no somatic or verbal ability they're screwed. Unless psionics. Although, the ability to capture a gaseous formed person might explain Magic Mouth type magic, trapping the GC person and binding them to speak as you order them....which could work if adapted and you take the Rogue Trooper comic from 2000AD route.

In the comic, Rogue is a GI -a Genetic Infantryman. His buddies personalities are downloaded after their death into chips which he loads onto his equipment and who can talk, and in some cases operate individually. Their names are Helm, Bagman, and Gunnar - which (a) tells you which bit of kit they're implanted into and (b) is a huge coincidence, right up there with Star Trek's "give the redshirt a name and he dies", but I digress.

In D&D terms, they could be bonded with weapons (self-cocking crossbow, anyone?), and some variant of magic mouth allows them to speak (and potentially cast spells - a Bard gaseous formed and bonded with a sword gives you a singing sword that gives the party Inspiration, for example).

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I really like the idea. Although I might be tempted to go whole hog and make it into its own game and really focus on the potion/alchemy/arcanist idea mechanically, but it would make for an interesting D&D setting as well. I look forward to see where this goes either way.