New specialization rules... whadd'ya think?

[mirivor]

Way back in the days of basic Dungeons and Dragons, a character could devote multiple proficiencies to his weapon as he progressed in level. The more slots that you devoted, the more stuff you could do. As a rough example, a person with 1 slot into shortsword would deal 1D6 damage, 2 slots would deal 2D6, 3 slots would deal 4D6, and so on. The limit was called Grand Master and I believe that it was six slots. Not every slot increased damage, however. Some weapons, such as the trident, granted a chance to effectively grapple your opponent with your weapon, or you would deal extra damage on a certain kind of strike. So such a chart might look like this:

Longsword

1 slot - Proficient (standard)
2 slots - specialized: +1D4 damage
3 slots - improved specialization: + 2D4 damage
4 slots - master: +2D6 damage
etc.

I do not have the older basic books to reference the rules, but it was something like that... I just remember that it was very cool. What do you guys and girls think of a system like that for 3.5? It allows characters to get beyond that same old die roll for damage, giving warrior types a little sneak attack/fireball type fun with the 3 or 4 dice that he may get. I have been considerig adopting that old system and was curious as to what others thought.

As a side note, the extra dice would act just like sneak attack dice in that they would not be multiplied for criticals and such. Later!

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

I like the overall idea, not sure how to represent it. I am of the camp that thinks Specialization is a bit underpowered anyway. At higher levels weapon specialization is useless compared to say powerattack. PA works with any weapon and at higher levels whne you are hitting almost every time with at least your two upper attacks giving up +2 to hit for +2 damage is nothing big. I think you could retool WS to give better bonuses the higher level fighter you are. Maybe you are on to something here. Give them +2 at 4th level, then +1d4 at 8th, +2d4 at 12th, +3d4 at 16th and finally +4d4 at 20th. You are still making it variable at the higher levels so it offsets the higher potential damage but still grants a scaling where it can be of great help. I agree that it shouldn't multiply on a crit and *possibly* not affect creatures that can't be critted.

 

[Aries_Omega]

What I do

Now mind you I haven't fully updated to 3.5 yet but what I did in 3.0 is add two feats....Weapon Mastery and Weapon Grandmastery. I opened up Weapon Specialization to Fighter (Lvl 1+), Psion Warriors, Rangers and Paladins (Lvl 4+). Weapon Mastery gives a bonus to hit and initiative. Weapon Grand Mastery gives a damage bonus and "fast attack" meaning that if you tie with someone then you go first...this is canceled by "speed weapons" and stacks with "speed weapons" meaning that if you are fighting with a "speed weapon" and have this feat vs. someone that only has one of these but not both, you go before them. I had a minumum level needed to obtain the feat and they were "Fighter Only" feats

Aries

 

[the Jester]

I am of the camp that thinks Specialization is a bit underpowered anyway.

Well, one solution is to have more fighter-only feats building off of WS.

That could be exactly the kind of thing here... but I think it might be a lil too much. After all, high-level fighters are already super-powerful. Still, if you invest in your skill with a specific weapon you should be rewarded...

It's hard to comment on this idea without something more concrete to look at though. I'd say individual weapon feat chains ('longsword mastery', 'longsword grand mastery,' etc) would be an interesting way to go.

 

[Inez Hull]

The OD&D weapon mastery rules also provided AC bonuses and some weapons allowed you to Deflect blows, where you could make a save to totally avoid damage a certain amount of times a round.

 

[mirivor]

I have the old book at home. I will post here with some real examples from the old rules. If any are interested, I could type up a list of some of the most common weapons used in the game today. Look for it by tomorrow night. Later!

 

[mirivor]

It turns out that the system was a little more complicated than I remembered. Here is a sample sling complete with all rules from the Cyclopedia of Rules. I tried to demonstrate a good portion of the original system's intent. Note that the abreviations BS, SK, EX, MS, and GM stand for Basic, Skilled, Expert, Master, and Grand Master, respectively.

Sling

Lvl ranges damage defense special effects

BS 40/80/160 1D4 - -
SK 40/80/160 1D6 -1 AC vs. 2 attacks Stun (M+S)
EX 60/110/170 2D4 -2 AC vs. 3 attacks Stun (M+S)
MS 60/110/170 3D4 -3 AC vs. 3 attacks Stun (M+S)
GM 80/130/180 4D4 -4 AC vs. 4 attacks Stun (M+S)


Note the increases in range and damage. The bonuses to armor class versus a certain number of attacks per round is kind of odd, but hey, it was basic D&D. The stun effect only affected medium and small creatures. It forced a saving throw vs. death ray (remember those days?) or else have your movement cut in third, a +2 penalty to AC and a -2 penalty to all saving throws, and he cannot attack or cast spells. Note that fighters at the 36th level received 15 "weapon choices" and all other classes received 10. These were much like feats, only they were used to demonstrate "proficiency" with weapons. It took 5 of those choices to grand master in any one weapon and it also cost gold... a considerable amount. The training chart looks like so:

# of weapon choices Training Time Cost per week

1 1 week 100 gp
2 2 weeks 250 gp
3 4 weeks 500 gp
4 8 weeks 750 gp
5 12 weeks 1000 gp

Fairly expensive, though worth it in the end. I realize that a lot of this stuff won't fit the current system, but I want to make sure that you have all of the information to judge against.


I also realize how overbeefed this is, but it could serve as a good basis for creating a new feat-based system for e3.5.

 

[Aaron L]

Many thanks, I am now basing a fighter feat chain extending up to 20th level based on this information.