New Terminator Going to Flop? [spoilers]

Zardnaar

Legend
The dreaded word reshoot and negative reactions to test screenings are doing the rounds.

Seems to me they made two more big mistakes.

1. Identify your core audience. If you like Terminator you probably like Terminator 2. Your age target demograph is probably 40 to 50 years old. T2 was 1991.

2. Failing to identify what makes Terminator tick. Arnie as the T-800 is a big part of that. Arnie's getting old now though. What's the other recurring thread through the Terminator movies plus TV shows? It's John Connor, and they killed him off. Oops.

To many reboots are starting to fail, Aladdin did alright but box office is down across the board this year. A big problem with reboots is often the original actor helped carry the movie. Reboots can be done well such as IT and Alladin did well but the rest seem to be flops.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
They’ve rebooted Terminator repeatedly. This one gives me more confidence than Salvation or Genysis. We’ll see.

Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor is a waaay bigger draw than a John Conner actor #6.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Linda kicks ass but she hasn't been in much of the franchise.

I don't care about John Connor actor 6 I do care about John Connor the character.

Lena Headey also did Sarah Connor and did it really well. Lena is awesome though. There's TV show was better than a few of the movies. Summer Glau and Shirley Manson also were cast as Terminators.

Rewatched T3 and Salvation recently. T3 I liked a lot Salvation and Genesys and well yeah. No comment.

Public knowledge of reshoots is kiss of death these days it seems.
 

Aeson

Adventurer
I liked the aspect of Salvation when the terminator didn't know he was a terminator. Kyle Reese and the mute girl were good. The various robots were cool. The rest I'm uncertain about.

On topic; I have low expectations for the new one. I think it will not live up to T2. Seems to me many use it as the metric to compare all that follows.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
Salvation is more average than outright bad.

Genesys is outright bad IMHO. One problem is T2 is so damn good anything else is going be meh in comparison. Still think T3 is a lot better than people give it credit for. Enjoyed it a month or so ago.

Another problem is it's hard to come up with original Terminator s all the time. I don't think they need to though the Sarah Connor Chronicles used T-800 variants and T-1000.

It leads to have we seen this before, the TV show went down the path of the machines developing free will. Which this new one apparently is recycling.

Personally I would get away from send a time travel assassin and build a smarter robot or set it in the future, Skynet goes down a'la T2 but enough robots have gone free willed or Skynet can download into individual bodies.

If you're gonna kill off John do it in the future post Skynet's "defeat". John's replacement wins the final victory or they come up with something else.
 
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trappedslider

Adventurer
Along with Hamilton,we also have Arnold back as well and here's the Premise

27 years after the events of Terminator 2: Judgment Day, a new, modified liquid metal Terminator (Gabriel Luna) is sent from the future by Skynet in order to terminate Dani Ramos (Natalia Reyes), a hybrid cyborg human (Mackenzie Davis), and her friends. Sarah Connor comes to their aid, as well as the original Terminator, for a fight for the future.

and after a quick search it looks like some of the reshoots might be done for practical effects carried out by the same studio who worked on the first movie.
 

Imaculata

Adventurer
When T-2 first appeared it absolutely blew the original out of the water. The question is if James Cameron's still got it and if he can repeat that trick a second time. It is also a question whether the much older core cast can still carry the film. I hope Cameron is wise enough not to start a project like this, unless he has a really good script and action that makes T2 pale in comparison... but I some how doubt that will happen. Then again, some of the classic directors can surprise you. Mad Max Fury Road was amazing, and established a new standard for action movies to live up to. What I've heard about this new Terminator movie though up to this point does not excite me.
 

trappedslider

Adventurer
James Cameron has had sod all to do with it from the sounds of it.

Mad Max was good.
it looks like Cameron's producing and has had a hand in the story, with Tim Miller directing it,whose directorial debut was Deadpool.

The film's writing credits, as recognized by the Writers Guild of America are screenplay by David S. Goyer & Justin Rhodes and Billy Ray; story by James Cameron & Charles H. Eglee & Josh Friedman and Goyer & Rhodes.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Producers don't have much to do with the actual movie, that's more the director and the writers.

Depends on how hands on he is I suppose but that's more directors job.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
The dreaded word reshoot and negative reactions to test screenings are doing the rounds.

Seems to me they made two more big mistakes.

1. Identify your core audience. If you like Terminator you probably like Terminator 2. Your age target demograph is probably 40 to 50 years old. T2 was 1991.

2. Failing to identify what makes Terminator tick. Arnie as the T-800 is a big part of that. Arnie's getting old now though. What's the other recurring thread through the Terminator movies plus TV shows? It's John Connor, and they killed him off. Oops.

To many reboots are starting to fail, Aladdin did alright but box office is down across the board this year. A big problem with reboots is often the original actor helped carry the movie. Reboots can be done well such as IT and Alladin did well but the rest seem to be flops.
If the age target demographic is 40 to 50 years old, then the movie has already flopped.

I obviously can't speak to every place, but I know that locally, the teens will go see movies ... multiple times. It's an opportunity for them to get together and hangout. And they enjoy watching movies multiple times as well.

If you're wondering why there are so many horror and superhero movies, there you go.

It's not that movies can't succeed at all with a more sophisticated audience, but to have a true blockbuster, you need to attract a younger crowd.

(This is also borne out by statistics; in fact, 40 - 50 is the worst demographic .... even worse than than 50-59 and 60+ which includes more retirees, and leaves out the three best demos; 25-39, 18-24, and 12-17; to give you a better idea, in the last year I have stats, those three demos are the only ones that purchase tickets and go to movies as a higher percentage than they exist as a demographic in the population).

In addition, if you are rebooting the franchise, you want to inculcate loyalty with a new audience, not a bunch of us that will by dying off soon.


TLDR; it's fine to have some nods to the past for us olds. But the key is to have the movie be accessible and interesting to a younger audience.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
In addition, if you are rebooting the franchise, you want to inculcate loyalty with a new audience, not a bunch of us that will by dying off soon.
It's pitched very much as a sequel rather than a reboot.

And I'm not planning on dying any time in the next 40 years, thanks!
 

Zardnaar

Legend
If the age target demographic is 40 to 50 years old, then the movie has already flopped.

I obviously can't speak to every place, but I know that locally, the teens will go see movies ... multiple times. It's an opportunity for them to get together and hangout. And they enjoy watching movies multiple times as well.

If you're wondering why there are so many horror and superhero movies, there you go.

It's not that movies can't succeed at all with a more sophisticated audience, but to have a true blockbuster, you need to attract a younger crowd.

(This is also borne out by statistics; in fact, 40 - 50 is the worst demographic .... even worse than than 50-59 and 60+ which includes more retirees, and leaves out the three best demos; 25-39, 18-24, and 12-17; to give you a better idea, in the last year I have stats, those three demos are the only ones that purchase tickets and go to movies as a higher percentage than they exist as a demographic in the population).

In addition, if you are rebooting the franchise, you want to inculcate loyalty with a new audience, not a bunch of us that will by dying off soon.


TLDR; it's fine to have some nods to the past for us olds. But the key is to have the movie be accessible and interesting to a younger audience.
Depends if they're marketing nostalgia but the target audience is younger crowd makes little sense.

I think that's why they're getting so many flops lately. They're rebooting 80s and 90s franchises but trying to aim them at the wrong crowds.

If you're young most won't care to much about Arnie or Linda so why use them in trailers.

Men in Black no Will Smith. Young ones don't have the nostalgia, older crowd don't care for new actors they don't care about, and a lot of actors are a bit past it.

You still need a good story as well.

Then again u don't go to the movies that much that's more because they don't seem to make movies for me. I'm not a massive super hero fan even when I was younger.
 
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lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
It's pitched very much as a sequel rather than a reboot.

Well, just pointing out that-

1. We had Terminator and T2.

2. Then we had the sequel, T3. How'd that go?

3. Then we had the Cameron-approved sequel, Salvation. How'd that go?

4. Then we had a reboot, that wasn't a reboot, Genisys. How's that go?

5. So now we have a sequel to ... T2. But it's not a reboot. Even though (obviously) they have to re-cast the roles of some of the actors in that film, and Arnold is 28 years older than T2 and 35 years older than Terminator.


Sure, we can quibble about the difference between a reboot, and a sequel, and rebooting sequel, and whatever, but the basic point remains-

if the target market is 40-50, the movie is doomed. Sorry.

Luckily, that won't be the target demographic, because no studio would greenlight that. I mean, there was Cocoon, but that was some time ago. Clint Eastwood still makes some stuff, but they aren't for the blockbuster market like a Terminator movie would be. See what I mean?

And I'm not planning on dying any time in the next 40 years, thanks!
Not to be morbid, but none of us are planning on it. But if you're in Zaardnar's target demographic, you should probably have a will; regardless of your plans.

Life moves pretty fast, and then you realize that you're not Ferris Bueller, but Abe Froman.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Depends if they're marketing nostalgia but the target audience is younger crowd makes little sense.

I think that's why they're getting so many flops lately. They're rebooting 80s and 90s franchises but trying to aim them at the wrong crowds.

If you're young most won't care to much about Arnie or Linda so why use them in trailers.

Men in Black no Will Smith. Young ones don't have the nostalgia, older crowd don't care for new actors they don't care about, and a lot of actors are a bit past it.

You still need a good story as well.
Really? Are you trying to say that, in general, good movies do better?

I am truly shocked.

Then again u don't go to the movies that much that's more because they don't seem to make movies for me. I'm not a massive super hero fan even when I was younger.
Or maybe it's because you're less likely to go to the theater? You realize that you are literally one of those "Get off my lawn" people that the demographics show, and it's either a chicken or egg thing?

Why don't the olds go to the movies?

Because they are too busy yelling at the clouds to make movies that cater to the olds.

Why don't they make movies that cater to us olds?

Because we are too busy yelling at the clouds to go to the movies.

/fin
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I don't go because I'm not into the MCU. We used to go a lot.

The young people aren't going either for these reboots.

Sure PR might claim they're aiming movies at everyone but that means you're really targeting no one. A few might be exceptions to that MCU, old Star Wars, Disney animated films in the (90's), Pixar 5+ years ago.

MCU is an exception to basically everything.

Movies are cheap here $8 USD and you can order a burger and beer.
 
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lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
I don't go because I'm not into the MCU. We used to go a lot.
My wife and I used to go to the movies a lot, too. Do you know what happened?

We got older.

Weird, huh? And now, my wife doesn't go to the movies ever (almost ever, I should say) because she prefers art films which are just as good on the large TV screen at home, and cheaper.

Whereas I will still go with the kids- but not nearly as often, and I don't go NEARLY as much as the oldest kid who goes on his own all the time with the other kids from his class.

The young people aren't going either for these reboots.
Says who? I mean, it depends on how you define reboot, right? There are almost no original IPs, so ... let's look at 2018.

Of the top 20 (20!) movies (Domestic US), 3 were original IP-
Bohemian Rhapsody #10 (Jukebox Biopic)
A Quiet Place #16 (Horror, the one genre that can consistently do decently with new IP)
Crazy Rich Asians #17 (RomCom!)

The rest were-
Marvel Cinematic Universe (including Sony Spiderman and Fox Mutants)-
Nos. 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 15

DC Universe
#5

Star Wars Universe
#12

Potterverse
#20

Sequels
Nos. 3 (Incredibles 2), 8 (MI 6), 14 (Wreck it 2- internet), 19 (Transylvania 3)

Reboots
Nos. 4 (JW Reboot/Sequel), 7 (Grinch), 11 (Star is Born), 18 (Mary Poppins Returns)

#21 was, of Course, Halloween, the Reboot/Sequel.



Sure PR might claim they're aiming movies at everyone but that means you're really targeting no one. A few might be exceptions to that MCU, old Star Wars, Disney animated films in the (90's), Pixar 5+ years ago.
PR always says they are targeting at everyone. For blockbusters/franchises (as we are discussing) they are targeting teens - 39. You aren't it.

MCU is an exception to basically everything.
Disney .... is an exception to everything. But it helps to own all IP, forever, in a synergistic fashion, right?
 

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