D&D 5E New Vecna Battle (Let's Get Ready to RUMBLE!!!) - CONCLUDED

[FitzTheRuke]

No, I mean, couldn't you have used Stroke of Luck when you rolled a 3 on your attack? Again, possible I missed it or that you'd already used it. Likewise with the Uncanny Dodge -- it didn't seem like you had used it, but skimming through these posts isn't the easiest.

Oh. Yeah. I forgot about Stroke of Luck (I knew about it weeks ago, when I wasn't missing, of course, but when I finally missed I couldn't think of it). As far as I know DM's been using Uncanny Dodge, as it should be "always on". I have to admit, I don't like the "gotcha"-ness of this. It's not how I play. If I forget to use abilities at this point, it's probably because I've started to give up.

 

[DorkForge]

There's a thin line between DMing and playing the PCs yourself, I know I find it hard not to point out the various times my players don't notice x or y ability at the right time.

At the end of the day players make mistakes, that's a part of real play and isn't a gotcha

 

[Helldritch]

So far, @DND_Reborn is quite fair. Players are doing the best they can under the circumstances. I much prefer this one battle over the white room we had earlier.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

There's a thin line between DMing and playing the PCs yourself, I know I find it hard not to point out the various times my players don't notice x or y ability at the right time.

At the end of the day players make mistakes, that's a part of real play and isn't a gotcha

If you say so. I don't mind story-based gotcha's (like Vecna disappearing and otherwise being difficult to find), but I don't like it when it comes to mechanics: if you want to know if I use an ability (one that I would obviously and clearly use), just ask.

I mean, keep in mind circumstances of playing here. For example, I was at work when I answered the question of "did I want to do anything else" and didn't have time to pour over my character sheet. It slipped my mind, in spite of planning to use it weeks earlier (when I didn't miss, so didn't need it).

Again, Pyre knows her abilities better than I do. It's one thing when NO ONE thinks of it, it's another when it's not included because "you didn't say....."

Look, I'm not trying to insult DND_Reborn, I think he's done an amazing job. This whole thing's been a lot more work than I bet that any of us expected, and I am grateful for it (and had a really good time, overall!)

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So far, @DND_Reborn is quite fair. Players are doing the best they can under the circumstances. I much prefer this one battle over the white room we had earlier.

Absolutely. IMO, this is a much better take on how it would go down, on average, than all those "Vecna sucks because I can make the perfect Vecna-killing character after reading his stat-block" type-posts.

 

[Greg Benage]

So far, @DND_Reborn is quite fair. Players are doing the best they can under the circumstances. I much prefer this one battle over the white room we had earlier.

Very much agree on the first two points, disagree on the last. This fight is all about the lair, and the takeaway is "Don't pick an endgame fight when you have no intel on the battlefield."

 

[Helldritch]

Very much agree on the first two points, disagree on the last. This fight is all about the lair, and the takeaway is "Don't pick an endgame fight when you have no intel on the battlefield."

No. The point is: "Don't take a rest before fighting the BBEG. That BBEG will prepare for you!"

 

[Cruentus]

Absolutely. IMO, this is a much better take on how it would go down, on average, than all those "Vecna sucks because I can make the perfect Vecna-killing character after reading his stat-block" type-posts.

I'm mostly struck by how hard they had to buff Vecna, and give him so many reactions and other abilities to counter PCs. It is frankly mind-boggling. (I get that as a lone BBEG, he normally loses out on action economy against 4 PCs).

I also am on one hand enjoying reading through how @DND_Reborn is running this, and how the party is reacting to it and fighting through it. On the other hand, I'm also cringing at how amped up it all is, when toning down everything on both sides would make for just as interesting a fight (IMO). (And again, I do get that this is the design paradigm for 5e now, and accept that).

Edit: and forgetting abilities mid battle (taking into account the format and all the challenges that brings), I think points to the absolute bunches of things that players have to navigate and track at mid and higher levels that its easy to overlook them, or forget.

Thanks to all for doing this, it has been fascinating!

 

[Greg Benage]

No. The point is: "Don't take a rest before fighting the BBEG. That BBEG will prepare for you!"

Huh. I didn't get that sense. He's been scrying them, but I expect he could have been doing that whether or not they "took a rest." Did I miss something in the intro/setup?

The lair empties the PCs into a kill box where they can't effectively get out of line of sight. None of the PCs have a way to create cover without casting a spell, which they can't do because they can't cast a spell.

ETA: I want to make clear I'm not saying the lair is "unfair." It's cool. In a real campaign, where the players could gather intel and resources and make a plan, it would be sweet. No problem with the lair at all.

 

[Stalker0]

Edit: and forgetting abilities mid battle (taking into account the format and all the challenges that brings), I think points to the absolute bunches of things that players have to navigate and track at mid and higher levels that its easy to overlook them, or forget.

I think its more a factor of we aren't playing 20th level characters "organically". We are just putting some characters together and going to work. In a normal campaign, the players have grown into these characters (and the DM has watched them grow) over many many sessions, so the abilities become ingrained. Under that condition its a lot easier to run 20th level games, because everyone just knows what everyone in the group can do.