New Wild Shape

[GMforPowergamers]

A druid with a shield and a shillelagh can have more ac, access to spells and about the same melee damage until level 5. after level 5 you have half the number of attacks, but being able to cast spells is reason enough to never wild shape in combat.

yeah I don't get why the HP buffer went away... especially when you have preset stats you could just give each form a number of hp

 

[mellored]

Suggestion: allow tiny scouting, but not automatic succeed at it.

When spotted by another creature, you can make a Wisdom (Nature) check against their passive insight. If you succeed, they assume you are a normal animal and will generally pay you no mind, allowing you to sneak past or scout.
Unnatrial behavior that brings attention to yourself, such a mouse grabbing a key, will instantly cause alarm. And cooks may still chase a mouse out of a kitchen.

Also, druids should have expertise in nature.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Suggestion: allow tiny scouting, but not automatic succeed at it.

When spotted by another creature, you can make a Wisdom (Nature) check against their passive insight. If you succeed, they assume you are a normal animal and will generally pay you no mind, allowing you to sneak past or scout.
Unnatrial behavior that brings attention to yourself, such a mouse grabbing a key, will instantly cause alarm. And cooks may still chase a mouse out of a kitchen.

I'm sure that is a well written rule, and I am sure it would help tables, but thinking as myself the idea that I need to "make a check" or be found out as a mouse seems weird

 

[mellored]

I'm sure that is a well written rule, and I am sure it would help tables, but thinking as myself the idea that I need to "make a check" or be found out as a mouse seems weird

I'd rather have "make a check at level 1" than "can't be a mouse till level 11".

Certainly open to other suggestions though.

 

[Stalker0]

A nice simple option for the moon Druid. They gain regeneration X while in wildshape.

It gives them a form of weak tanking that’s not too strong, but gives them incredible long term healing, which is different than other classes.

 

[OB1]

A nice simple option for the moon Druid. They gain regeneration X while in wildshape.

It gives them a form of weak tanking that’s not too strong, but gives them incredible long term healing, which is different than other classes.

I like it! PB per round would probably be enough. Full set of simple changes that keeps everything else the same.

Swap Large and Tiny at level 1 and 11
While in wildshape form damage doesn't force concertation checks
Moon Druids regenerate PB HP per round, goes to 2PB HP per round when you get the elemental features

 

[Vael]

I've run into three types of Druid Players:
1. The disorganized. Using Wildshape is a pain as they are hunting through various options every time.
2. The "I just want to be a wolf" ... they always wildshape into a wolf. And yes, they're a Moon Druid.
3. The Optimized and Organized. Yep, ready to go, have their chart of available animals, and ... yet again the most optimal form is bear.

And to be bluntly honest, the new Druid (after a few tweaks) is conceptually better for all three players. 1 ... well who knows if it'll actually work, but at least the info is centralized in front of them. 2 ... gets to be a wolf with stats that improve as they level up. And 3 ... Honestly, I've been there. When there's only really one or two correct (ie, most powerful for CR) options ... is it really even a choice?

So yes, I don't think the numbers are quite right, but I think this is the way the Druid should go, with player aimed generic statblocks, no more Monster Manual delving.

 

[Enrahim2]

I am curious - for those unhappy that the hulk megatank build for druids are gone - How would you feel if that was instead moved to the barbarian class, as an upgraded totem warrior/beast subclass? That is you are locked down to a single animal, not having the versatility of the druid. However you get the full flavor and versatility of your chosen animal along with the base barbarian rage buffs.

The reason I ask is that I do recognize this as a pretty cool playstyle, it just seem to belong with the barbarian. That is the class that is supposed to have bursts of extreme martial power.

I have seen noone talking about how this is fiting the traditional flavor of druid in folklore - except for pointing out that transforming to small animals is sort of a standard. To me calm herbalists gathering in circles and having animal friends come to mind. If angered, I think of them as the organizers and commanders mashaling the powers of nature. Think Merlin or miraculix. I dont think I have seen a single source outside RPG where anything called "Druid" take a animal shape to brute force the situation. There are definitely room for that kind of fantasy, as demonstrated by Beorn, werewolves or animorphs, but these are certanly not the magic using druid trope.

As such getting rid of "power use" of wild shape appear like a good way to make the class more suitable for the more traditional druid concept. Rake ghe moon druid: I still think it might be relevant, but would need to be played with more care, and likely be more situational. For instance summonig up a bunch of animals change to their shape and do some self buffing before combat, and you have effectively a boosted combination of mirror image and spirit guardians while hitting close to a fighter. And this would be a tactic that resonate much more with my idea of a flavorful "Druid", than the owlbear-rager.

So yes, if you only played the Druid for power, then I don't weep for you a second if you now feel you have to change class. That just mean the balancing works. I do find the tiny limitation problematic though, as that is a source of a lot of fun. I however also accept it is massively overpowered at level 1. I think I would have liked to see it earlier than level 11, but the question is what should then be shuffled later? Maybe elemental resistance as that seem less iconic?

When it come to not having separate statblock per animal, I actually do not see the big problem. You can take the shape of a viper, but if you want the venom, you need a real one sound fully thematically aproperiate to me. Actually I think this can give some interesting flavor like the wolf that mystical creeps up the steep cliff I can't immediately think of any big iconic effect that we would be missing out on with the shapes suggested.

 

[mellored]

I've run into three types of Druid Players:
1. The disorganized. Using Wildshape is a pain as they are hunting through various options every time.
2. The "I just want to be a wolf" ... they always wildshape into a wolf. And yes, they're a Moon Druid.
3. The Optimized and Organized. Yep, ready to go, have their chart of available animals, and ... yet again the most optimal form is bear.

4: you like to use a variety of shapes to adapt to different situations.

I'm still fine with a general stat block. But sometimes I want high speed and pounce to chase down a fleeing target, sometimes I want web to split a group of enemies, sometimes I want poison to give a boss disadvantage on attacks, sometimes I want to be a giant armored crab who can grapple, sometimes I want to push creatures off a cliff.

I'm fine with a general stat block. But it needs extra flexibility. Especially for the moon druid.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Wildshape plus Pass Without Trace did make Druids very insane scouts/thieves/infiltrators.

I get the need to nerf Druids, they're definitely one of the strongest classes (I'd put 'em at number 2 myself), but the new Wildshape just seems a bit uninspired to me.

Moon druids can now cast pass without trace as animal...

They need a little buff. But not much. Everything a bit earlier.