LuisCarlos17f
Legend
Can they use tools and weapons in their wild shapes thanks opposible dumbs? For example to reload a crossbow.
Rat and Cat crosses each others pathShow me a castle full of rats and I'll show you a druid popping out of wild shape after getting pounced by a castle cat![]()
Is this spoken from actual experience or is this just white room theory-crafting? Because my personal experience differs.
Because casting cure wound in wild shape (14 AC) is worse than casting cure wound in normal form (18 AC) and hitting with shillelagh.This is as far as I can see not in any way looking at the effect of the added abdurartion/healing capability?
Transmutation (self only) would makes more sense IMO.(removing the abduration casting).
Increase the bears CR rating.My experience at low to mid levels... That much extra hp was too much. Proved to be annoying.
My experience at low to mid levels... That much extra hp was too much. Proved to be annoying.
Refined suggestion.
Keep the stat block as is.
Add +5 THP per level
When you wild shape, you may cast a transmutation spell on yourself. Spells cast this way don't require concentration checks when damaged, though your form changes to reflect the spell. For instance, if you cast jump, you might get the legs of a frog.
Add extra transmutation spells on the primal list.
-panthers pounce
-frogs swallow
-snakes reach
-vipers venom
-wolf pack tactic
...etc
Moon druid 3: as a bonus action.
Moon druid 6: your transmutation spell doesn't take a slot.
Moon druid 10: you can have 2 transmutation at once. The second one takes a spell slot.
Moon druid 14: you can have 3 transmutation at once. You spend a spell slot on the highest level one.
Is this spoken from actual experience or is this just white room theory-crafting? Because my personal experience differs.
Why not let them choose enhancements every time they shift? The flexibility is a core part of the fun.Mine would be:
+THP (we can quibble about the number)
Moon:
3rd: Pick two two "enhancements" from a list, like invocations (some have level requirements). When you shift you get those enhancements.
Every level 4+: swap one enhancement for another
6th, 10th, 14th: gain another enhancement. (Plus maybe other goodies.)
Increase the bears CR rating.
It solves most of the issues.
Why not let them choose enhancements every time they shift? The flexibility is a core part of the fun.
I agree.Ok.
But then the problems of forcing players to look through DM resources... and needing system mastery... and being dependend on DM fiat (which I also have experienced)...
Templates as the default are better. Maybe then have an optional rule to replace the generic blocks with specific animal stat blocks you have encountered. And Still I would replace the animal HP with THP and the animal attacks with beast strike...
My adhoc solutions would have been:I agree.
But for the 2014 version, just changing the bear CR makes druids a lot more balanced.
If it's a spell, you'd need to prepare it.I dunno. Why not let Battlemasters have the whole list of maneuvers, or Sorcerers have every metamagic option, or Warlocks every Imvocation?
What if regular druids have their own iconic form, but moon druids can go full form manipulation?I like the idea that each Druid has their own, iconic form, and aren’t just Swiss Army knives.
For non-moon druids it was more or less a ribbon ability anyway... so...
edit: I am speaking as DM here and a bystanding player: being able to transform and have so many extra hp felt imbalanced. That everyone compares them to the barbarian is in my opinion rather proving my point, not theirs. It is too much.
5THP per level for a moon druid seems quite appropriate. I'd even say WIS bonus + 4THP for everyone, WIS bonus +6 THP for moon druids. Of course youbare knocked out of wildshape when your THP are lost.
A little boost at level 1 and 2, because 5 hp feels a bit too low at level 1 for me.
I'd also add WIS bonus to concentration saves. I really hate melee characters woth concentration spells not being able to hold them 40% of the time.
This is as far as I can see not in any way looking at the effect of the added abdurartion/healing capability? That was what I wondered if anyone had looked into trying to quantify. So I now have time to make a simple attempt. assuming 8 hp per spell level from cure wounds we look at a 32 buffer per long rest without upcasting. The upcasting is very lackluster if CW is not reworked. But still at 4th level if assuming the caster is only burning slots on CW there is an extra 36 hp to fetch there. Assuming the options in PHB is representative of what the Druid HP buffer was intended to be, the CR1 monsters hover around 30hp with dire wolf being the tankiest with 37 (and 14 AC). It hence seem that even if burning trough all spell slots, and sacrificing 7 standard actions the Druid still do not get up to 5ed standard when it come to durability while in beast shape. (Taking into account 2 beast shapes per short rest)
As I tried to state in the post you reply to. I do believe they tried to replace it. However as the calculation above indicate, that replacement seem far from adequate if the intention was to provide the same overall balancing as 5ed (not to mention it is only made for Moon druids). I think we hence actually might agree on basic principle, but are speaking a bit past each other as we use wildly different rethorics. I think we are in a better position to effect change if we try to identify what they might have tried to do, and suggest changes in a similar vein (hence my suggested double self healing, bonus action, extended to all druids suggestion), rather than proposing something completely different to try fix it.
However I think at this point it might be better for them to accept losing out on some of the simplifications I think they were aiming at and introduce a scaling hp formula in the stat block; like 5 x proficiency bonus, tripled for moon druid (removing the abduration casting).
Ok.
But then the problems of forcing players to look through DM resources... and needing system mastery... and being dependend on DM fiat (which I also have experienced)...
Templates as the default are better. Maybe then have an optional rule to replace the generic blocks with specific animal stat blocks you have encountered. And Still I would replace the animal HP with THP and the animal attacks with beast strike...
Things I want to keep about wild shape:
1. Druid tanking as a hit point sponge. It's a different way of tanking, it's an established role that some players clearly enjoy, and is not inherently OP. It just needs to be better tuned.
2. Druids being able to turn into a variety of weak animals to deal with different non-combat situations. Like a becoming a ferret to scoot down a drain, or a spider to crawl up a wall and eavesdrop, that kind of thing.
3. Some variety in combat options so the druid has some choices to make.
4. Druid is unable to speak while wild shaped. Look, players badly pantomiming is comedy gold at the table and I don't want to see it lost.