D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[Stalker0]

Things I want to keep about wild shape:

1. Druid tanking as a hit point sponge. It's a different way of tanking, it's an established role that some players clearly enjoy, and is not inherently OP. It just needs to be better tuned.

2. Druids being able to turn into a variety of weak animals to deal with different non-combat situations. Like a becoming a ferret to scoot down a drain, or a spider to crawl up a wall and eavesdrop, that kind of thing.

3. Some variety in combat options so the druid has some choices to make.

4. Druid is unable to speak while wild shaped. Look, players badly pantomiming is comedy gold at the table and I don't want to see it lost.

I don't see why all of that can't be accomplished with some generic template options.

And it seems like we could keep these through some small changes to spells:

1) Moon druids: Whenever the druid wildshapes they may immediate cast the barkskin spell on themselves. This use does not require concentration. Barkskin is always a prepared spell for them.

2) The Reduce/enlarge spell alters the creature size after wildshape (this isn't even a rules change, its just a specific interpretation of what can already be allowed with the new spell list).

This allows the druid to maintain some of the old strength but does require some spell slots to do it, so it balances the books a bit better.

 

[Weiley31]

Via this link, I feel like the post goes over like all the possible options you can wild shape into. What's really cool is that the poster went through the hassle of also getting some of the Adventure module exclusive options that can be used for your Wild Shaping. Some options are mentioned/listed from these sources which are ALSO Adventure League Legal/DM Guild Adept program.:

Xanathar's Lost Notes to Everything Else
-Example: Elder Dryad (okay not a wild shape form, but an upscaled option for Conjure Fey).

Beasts of The Jungle Rot
-Example: Brachiosaurus

Return of the Lizard King
-Example: Mutated Crocodile

Unleash Your Inner Beast: A Moon Druid Guide (5e)

Unleash Your Inner Beast: A Moon Druid Guide (v1.3) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/blackbandos-homebrew/images/2/2e/Circle_of_the_summoner.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171018133731 My guide to the other Druid Circles is available here. Table of Content: Post1: Introduction Post2...

forums.giantitp.com

I like this link a lot cuz it ALSO goes over various stuff such that all involves the Druid from equipment to even a Heavy Armor option (Petrified Mushroom) and where that can be found.

Note: YMMV if you have differing opinions on which Wild Shape form options are good or bad. Adventure League/DM Guild Adept also are in that grey area where your DM may or may not approve.

Now somebody has to do one for Kobold Press's stuff for more Druid Wild Shaping goodness.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Oh, oh wow. I didn't even catch this. Watching Treantmonk's video (don't always agree with him, but those are good videos to watch for challenging your own ideas of balance) and he pointed out something HUGE.

It says you lose all other abilities. This could include saving throw proficiencies, skill proficiencies, ect.

Now, this could be an interpretation thing. Because it says you lose access to Features, which may be a game term, but then I don't know what you call your proficiencies, and what if you multi-class and get a feature that gives you skill profs or saves? Or you take feats?

It is easy to just rule you get them, but phrasing can matter at many tables

 

[Zubatcarteira]

In OneD&D, the "Class features" part is after all the hit points/proficiency/armor training stuff, so they shouldn't count for that.

Edit: At least the ones granted by the base class.

 

[Clint_L]

And it seems like we could keep these through some small changes to spells:

1) Moon druids: Whenever the druid wildshapes they may immediate cast the barkskin spell on themselves. This use does not require concentration. Barkskin is always a prepared spell for them.

2) The Reduce/enlarge spell alters the creature size after wildshape (this isn't even a rules change, its just a specific interpretation of what can already be allowed with the new spell list).

This allows the druid to maintain some of the old strength but does require some spell slots to do it, so it balances the books a bit better.

We already mathed this out a few pages back. Barkskin isn't even close to enough to let druids function as an off-tank.

 

[Stalker0]

We already mathed this out a few pages back. Barkskin isn't even close to enough to let druids function as an off-tank.

My other idea in a separate thread was to give them regen X in wildshape. They wouldn’t be great initial tanks but could heal lots of damage

 

[mellored]

My other idea in a separate thread was to give them regen X in wildshape. They wouldn’t be great initial tanks but could heal lots of damage

Then after every battle, the druid would just regen to full. Not exactly a wild shape use that fills the fantasy.

Barkskin style THP could work if the number was higher. But you need to consider the low AC.

IMO, a bucket of THP at the start will keep it playing mostly the same. You transform, (*get some utility or special attack), absorb some ldamage, and go back to being a normal druid.

*the utility still needs to be added.

 

[Enrahim2]

So I think the core problem here is that with the current change there are no compelling mechanical reason to ever shapechange. Another thing that botheres me is that there are no mechanical effect related to what shape is chosen. A dog work is the same as a lion, work the same as an elephant.

Loading down the system with added complexity by essentialy adding a new seperate feat shopping list for traits the player can mix and match from keeps the versatility, but loses most of the simplification benefit. Making these traits match well with flavor is also tricky unless you reinterpret shape change to turning into a chimaera rather than animal.

I hence propose the following as a way to regain out of combat utility. It give a different kind of utility than 5ed, so it hence do not cater to the same playstyle - but it allows for usefulness and choice of form to matter without complicating the system:

Restore the duration to 5ed standard. The druid become able to communicate with beasts of their shape as if having cast speak with animals. Moreover they gain advantage on any social rolls involving beasts of their shape.

I think this is thematically strong, make sense, and is definitely an utility. It also would be very clearly distinct from other classes. It also lends well to the interpretation that you haven't actually turned fully to that animal, but rather just taken their shape; simplifying the explanation of how the true animals has different traits than the wild shape druid. Might this be sufficient to fix normal druids, so we are left with how to make moon druids combat capable in a way that don't make them just reskinned barbarians during combat?

 

[Chaosmancer]

I hence propose the following as a way to regain out of combat utility. It give a different kind of utility than 5ed, so it hence do not cater to the same playstyle - but it allows for usefulness and choice of form to matter without complicating the system:

Restore the duration to 5ed standard. The druid become able to communicate with beasts of their shape as if having cast speak with animals. Moreover they gain advantage on any social rolls involving beasts of their shape.

Disagree. Do you know the number of times I've needed to roll social checks against an animal? Zero. In ten something years of 5e DnD, it has never once come up. The only benefit to your version is advantage on social checks, and getting a spell that you could have just cast instead of wild shaping. And that just... isn't a thing that actually matters.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Disagree. Do you know the number of times I've needed to roll social checks against an animal? Zero. In ten something years of 5e DnD, it has never once come up. The only benefit to your version is advantage on social checks, and getting a spell that you could have just cast instead of wild shaping. And that just... isn't a thing that actually matters.

The first time I ever played a druid there was a conversation with wolves about "survival of the fittest" Vs the value of caring for the wounded. This was over 30 years ago.