New WotC FAQ on flurry of blows

[shilsen]

I didn't see the regular "the FAQ sucks" thread when the latest one came out on the WotC site. I think you guys are losing your touch

Here are a couple of clarifications on something people have been arguing on this site for ages - flurrying and TWF, and flurrying and natural weapons:

Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine
a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her
penalties on attack rolls?

A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other
character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her
attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an off-hand
weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with
a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but
remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special
monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for two-weapon
fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.

For example, at 6th level, the monk Ember can normally
make one attack per round at a +4 bonus. When using flurry of
blows, she may make two attacks (using unarmed strikes or any
special monk weapons she holds), each at a +3 bonus. If she
wants to make an extra attack with her off hand, she has to
accept a –4 penalty on her primary hand attacks and a –8
penalty on her off-hand attacks (assuming she wields a light
weapon in her off hand).

If Ember has Two-Weapon Fighting, she has to accept only
a –2 penalty on all attacks to make an extra attack with her off
hand. Thus, when wielding a light weapon in her off hand
during a flurry of blows, she can make a total of three attacks,
each at a total bonus of +1. At least one of these attacks has to
be with her off-hand weapon.

Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks (such as a
centaur monk) attack unarmed and still use his natural
weapons? For example, let’s say he’s an 8th-level monk.
Can he use a flurry of blows and attack at +5/+5/+0
unarmed (plus other bonuses) and then at +0/+0 for 2
hooves?

If the creature normally is allowed to make both weapon
attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full
attack routine, the monk can do the same (making unarmed
strikes in place of weapon attacks). Since a centaur can make
two hoof attacks in addition to his longsword attack, a centaur
monk can make two hoof attacks in addition to his unarmed
strike attack (or attacks, depending on his base attack bonus).
The monk can’t use his natural weapon attacks as part of a
flurry of blows, but he may make natural weapon attacks in
addition to his flurry. Such attacks suffer the same –2 penalty
as the monk’s flurry attacks in addition to the normal –5
penalty for secondary natural attacks.

An 8th-level centaur monk has a base attack bonus of +10
(+4 from his 4 monstrous humanoid Hit Dice, and +6 from his
8 monk levels). If he performs a flurry of blows, he makes
three unarmed strikes, at +8/+8/+3. He can add two hoof
attacks at +1/+1 (–5 as secondary weapons, and –2 from the
flurry).

One ... two ... three ... Discuss.

 

[Darklone]

Troll monk with three natural weapons and monks kungfoooo kicks?

Btw shilsen: We waited till you posted it. To clarify that you're part of the pack

Poor guy.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Interesting idea... My Monk character (4th) uses a glaive for 10ft reach and unarmed kicks when within 5ft of a foe.

Presumably he could, should he so choose, get TWF and use his kicks as his primary flurrying weapons and take his "off hand" attack with the glaive, with all attacks being at -4 because the "off hand" weapon is not a light weapon? It is a heck of a penalty but it could make for interesting "kung-fu-like" scenes

The problem is, can a two handed weapon be considered a secondary ("off hand") weapon? Would it be allowed but he'd only get 0.5 * Str bonus because it is being used as the secondary weapon rather than the normal 1.5* Str bonus?

n.b. this is just a thought experiment really - I don't anticipate attempting to go this route with the character. I'm interested to discuss the possibility though.

Cheers

 

[drunkmoogle]

My thoughts on the matter:

A monk using FoB must use unarmed strike or special monk weapons ONLY for that round. Meaning that the other attack granted by TWF must fall within those FoB paramaters and natural weapons cannot be used.

The FAQ directly contradicts me, and thus sucks . I'll be sticking with my interpretation for now.

 

[SableWyvern]

If you can make an unarmed off-hand attack while wielding a 2-handed weapon, I can't see why the alternate shouldn't be just as legal.

 

[TwoSix]

An 8th-level centaur monk has a base attack bonus of +10
(+4 from his 4 monstrous humanoid Hit Dice, and +6 from his
8 monk levels). If he performs a flurry of blows, he makes
three unarmed strikes, at +8/+8/+3. He can add two hoof
attacks at +1/+1 (–5 as secondary weapons, and –2 from the
flurry).

Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't the two hoof attacks be at +3/+3? +10 BAB, -5 secondary, -2 flurry? Is the other -2 from Two-Weapon Fighting?

 

[Tazawa]

An 8th-level centaur monk has a base attack bonus of +10
(+4 from his 4 monstrous humanoid Hit Dice, and +6 from his
8 monk levels). If he performs a flurry of blows, he makes
three unarmed strikes, at +8/+8/+3. He can add two hoof
attacks at +1/+1 (–5 as secondary weapons, and –2 from the
flurry).

You're not missing anything. All it's showing is that Andy Collins is human too and is as fallible as Skip Williams was.

An 8th-level monk only takes a -1 penalty when flurrying, so the centaur monk's three unarmed strikes would be at +9/+9/+4. His two hooves would be at +4/+4 (+10 -5 for secondary weapon, -1 for flurry).

 

[shilsen]

Troll monk with three natural weapons and monks kungfoooo kicks?

I was shooting for any large (or bigger) dragon doing bite/claw/claw/wing/wing/tail slap plus kungfoooo kicks, but if you want to settle for the troll...

Btw shilsen: We waited till you posted it. To clarify that you're part of the pack

Awwww

 

[ThirdWizard]

An 8th-level monk only takes a -1 penalty when flurrying, so the centaur monk's three unarmed strikes would be at +9/+9/+4.

Isn't a centaur large?

 

[LokiDR]

This does seem to make monks the machine guns of shuriken. Rapid shot stacks with TWF (unless I've missed an errata along the way). TWF stacks with flurry. Shuriken is a special monk weapon. That's a lot of shuriken.