[news] Chainmail is back
- Thread starter bolen
- Start date
Foundry of Decay
First Post
I'll paste my concerns here that I had posted on Wizards boards. Also, let me state that while a pre-painted plastic line is a good thing for a lot of folks who play D&D, and that I support *that* side of things, I don't like 'collectable' miniatures lines. I'd probably be less disenchanted of it were stated that metal miniatures of models would also be available at the same price as the old Chianmail ones, since I'd like to have high quality miniatures that I could paint myself.
Also, let me put a pre-emptive warning: These are simply my thoughts on the subject. Take them for what you will.
And now the snippet:
"Well, Wizards successfully destroyed any hope of artistry in their miniatures department. At least in my eyes they have.
There are a lot of things about this alleged product line up that bug me. While it's not confirmed yet, and I won't get out the torches to burn Wizards to the ground in my mind, news like this still makes me give a wincing shiver.
* Quality: You cannot, even with the most crafty and skilled of artists doing both concept and carving, get quality out of something they use to make rubber flooring out of. There will be an obvious lack of quality in both detail, and pose (If you want truly wonderful poses, you HAVE to do them in seperate pieces because of the molding process). It's pretty obvious that there will be horrible miscasts on the market as well, since rubber tends to shrink, warp, sieze, and generally bend depending on environment. Ticked off because your warriors sword has a bullum tip? Sorry, buy another. Annoyed that your mages staff is bent in the middle, and cannot stay straight when you try to bend it back? Whups! that'll be another $3.95 please.
* Pre painting: Obviously, you could blind an otter with a screwdriver, spin it around really fast about a hundred times, cover it's paws in paint, and then FLING it into a room filled with miniatures and come up with a better paint job than what I see on pre-painted miniatures (at least judging by those awful things at Mage Knight). I'm not attacking the people who paint these, as they have a very tight schedule I'm sure, and have to be as quick as possible, but pre-painted means I'll avoid this product like a plague. Why go through tedious hours of scrubbing and trying to get little flecks of paint out of corners with a pin, when I can go to Reaper, plunk down a few, and come away with a terribly well crafted miniature?
Even if these things had the best quality possible (Which would be about low to mid quality judging by the material used to make them), It would actually take less time to paind the bloody things than to sit there trying to get the paint off, even with brake fluid.
* Random happy joy happy you-buy-now!: One of the most horridly money grabbing, greasy fisted tactics in today's market. I literally feel my muscles tighten when I hear the word 'collectable' used with a miniatures line. These are not trading cards. For the love of Cheese and hair samples, why.. WHY would the company that makes D&D knowingly screw them over like this? It's like they are directly pointing and laughing at the poor morons who bothered picking up 3e, and actually held a candle of hope out to be able to buy official, high quality, and NON-RANDOM models for it.
Reaper wins out again. While they don't produce all of the stuff in 3e, they at least try to cover the basics as best as they can, and I commend them for that. I'm sure Wizards would have seen sales like this if they had supported Chainmail in the first place, and not unceremoniously dumped it like this. Where else could you have found a FEMALE gnoll.. I guess those days are over.
* Direct lies: Oh, I know that anyone spouting that a company has somehow lied directly to them is usually placed in the same catagory as those goons who claim they saw the ghosts of aliens digging through their trash on Halloween. But I specifically recall someone on the official staff stating "No Plastic". That, if I remember correctly, is a direct quote. Basically, that was a lie. It was at best an uninformed statement, and at worst it was trying to quell the huge boiling anger that suddenly erupted with the death of Chainmail, and the spinning rumors of floor tiling miniatures to follow soon after.
The lies are the one that I have the most trouble digesting, and THE factor that made me shake my head, and state that I will not buy any miniatures product from this line at all. I don't like being treated like a child. You don't need to tell me that we're going for ice-cream, when in reality your taking me along to get a root canal, and two fisted, drunken bar fly beating afterwards.
However, I think nearly everyone expected this in some way. Why would anyone drop a well crafted metal miniatures line, just to do a well crafted metal miniatures line later on? It doesn't make any sense at all. So that looming goliath of marketing was always lurking in the background.
So, if these alleged business plans are true, then.. Well.. Thanks Wizards. I guess I can no longer expect to get official miniatures for D&D anymore. I don't play wargames, but bought a LOT of Chainmail stuff for my 3e Campaigns, hell, I nearly bought every Gnoll miniature that was available in the regular market. Now all I can hope for is some machine pooped blob of semi-detailed plastic with gluey enamel deleting any resemblance it may have had to an artform. Wonderful!"
Also, let me put a pre-emptive warning: These are simply my thoughts on the subject. Take them for what you will.
And now the snippet:
"Well, Wizards successfully destroyed any hope of artistry in their miniatures department. At least in my eyes they have.
There are a lot of things about this alleged product line up that bug me. While it's not confirmed yet, and I won't get out the torches to burn Wizards to the ground in my mind, news like this still makes me give a wincing shiver.
* Quality: You cannot, even with the most crafty and skilled of artists doing both concept and carving, get quality out of something they use to make rubber flooring out of. There will be an obvious lack of quality in both detail, and pose (If you want truly wonderful poses, you HAVE to do them in seperate pieces because of the molding process). It's pretty obvious that there will be horrible miscasts on the market as well, since rubber tends to shrink, warp, sieze, and generally bend depending on environment. Ticked off because your warriors sword has a bullum tip? Sorry, buy another. Annoyed that your mages staff is bent in the middle, and cannot stay straight when you try to bend it back? Whups! that'll be another $3.95 please.
* Pre painting: Obviously, you could blind an otter with a screwdriver, spin it around really fast about a hundred times, cover it's paws in paint, and then FLING it into a room filled with miniatures and come up with a better paint job than what I see on pre-painted miniatures (at least judging by those awful things at Mage Knight). I'm not attacking the people who paint these, as they have a very tight schedule I'm sure, and have to be as quick as possible, but pre-painted means I'll avoid this product like a plague. Why go through tedious hours of scrubbing and trying to get little flecks of paint out of corners with a pin, when I can go to Reaper, plunk down a few, and come away with a terribly well crafted miniature?
Even if these things had the best quality possible (Which would be about low to mid quality judging by the material used to make them), It would actually take less time to paind the bloody things than to sit there trying to get the paint off, even with brake fluid.
* Random happy joy happy you-buy-now!: One of the most horridly money grabbing, greasy fisted tactics in today's market. I literally feel my muscles tighten when I hear the word 'collectable' used with a miniatures line. These are not trading cards. For the love of Cheese and hair samples, why.. WHY would the company that makes D&D knowingly screw them over like this? It's like they are directly pointing and laughing at the poor morons who bothered picking up 3e, and actually held a candle of hope out to be able to buy official, high quality, and NON-RANDOM models for it.
Reaper wins out again. While they don't produce all of the stuff in 3e, they at least try to cover the basics as best as they can, and I commend them for that. I'm sure Wizards would have seen sales like this if they had supported Chainmail in the first place, and not unceremoniously dumped it like this. Where else could you have found a FEMALE gnoll.. I guess those days are over.
* Direct lies: Oh, I know that anyone spouting that a company has somehow lied directly to them is usually placed in the same catagory as those goons who claim they saw the ghosts of aliens digging through their trash on Halloween. But I specifically recall someone on the official staff stating "No Plastic". That, if I remember correctly, is a direct quote. Basically, that was a lie. It was at best an uninformed statement, and at worst it was trying to quell the huge boiling anger that suddenly erupted with the death of Chainmail, and the spinning rumors of floor tiling miniatures to follow soon after.
The lies are the one that I have the most trouble digesting, and THE factor that made me shake my head, and state that I will not buy any miniatures product from this line at all. I don't like being treated like a child. You don't need to tell me that we're going for ice-cream, when in reality your taking me along to get a root canal, and two fisted, drunken bar fly beating afterwards.
However, I think nearly everyone expected this in some way. Why would anyone drop a well crafted metal miniatures line, just to do a well crafted metal miniatures line later on? It doesn't make any sense at all. So that looming goliath of marketing was always lurking in the background.
So, if these alleged business plans are true, then.. Well.. Thanks Wizards. I guess I can no longer expect to get official miniatures for D&D anymore. I don't play wargames, but bought a LOT of Chainmail stuff for my 3e Campaigns, hell, I nearly bought every Gnoll miniature that was available in the regular market. Now all I can hope for is some machine pooped blob of semi-detailed plastic with gluey enamel deleting any resemblance it may have had to an artform. Wonderful!"
Foundry of Decay said:
You have to remember, WOTC bought out TSR, because M:TG took off. They orginally put out collectible games. Someone else said that you can hit the WIZKIDS bulding from the WOTC place. WOTC sees how good magenight, ect is doing for WIZKIDS, they are trying to cash in.
Ranger REG
Explorer
HeroClix is to MageKnight as Pokemon is to Magic. But sooner or later, HeroClix will probably slow down, unless they continue to reinvent the game, maybe do a mass-combat Skrull-Kree war.kenjib said:
Unless of course they packaged it in singles, which may be more expensive than random pack.
Query: are they going to make 30 mm miniatures (appropriate for D&D 3e), or are we still stuck with 25-28mm?
trancejeremy
Adventurer
Bah.
I wish people wouldn't get upset about plastic figures. It's not like WOTC is going to break into your homes and steal your paints and lead figures. I don't even think they've said they'll stop making lead D&D figures. They had already cancelled Chainmail - this just replaces the cancelled Chainmail. And if they do stop making official D&D lead minis (which I sincerely doubt), there are dozens of companies that make lead minis for fantasy games.
How many companies make painted plastic minis for fantasy games? Just one, AFAIK. (Soon to be two).
Secondly, it will be a great deal because of the randomness.
Collectible games are always set up so that certain things are rare, and thus valuable. This has the effect of making the common things very very cheap. In CCGs, this isn't much of a bonus, because what use has a little bit of cardboard have outside the game it's made for? None.
OTOH, painted plastic figures are quite useable in a variety of games. Including D&D.
People like me who don't care about uniques and rares and such will make out like bandits. Like I say, I have a few hundred MK figures, and I paid probably on average 30 cents (US) a piece for them. I've known others that paid far, far less.
I mean, who cares if you don't have the Hillary, Queen of the Mole people figure that sells for $30 on the reseller market. If you can get 50 decent looking orcs for $10, it's a great thing for most people.
I wish people wouldn't get upset about plastic figures. It's not like WOTC is going to break into your homes and steal your paints and lead figures. I don't even think they've said they'll stop making lead D&D figures. They had already cancelled Chainmail - this just replaces the cancelled Chainmail. And if they do stop making official D&D lead minis (which I sincerely doubt), there are dozens of companies that make lead minis for fantasy games.
How many companies make painted plastic minis for fantasy games? Just one, AFAIK. (Soon to be two).
Secondly, it will be a great deal because of the randomness.
Collectible games are always set up so that certain things are rare, and thus valuable. This has the effect of making the common things very very cheap. In CCGs, this isn't much of a bonus, because what use has a little bit of cardboard have outside the game it's made for? None.
OTOH, painted plastic figures are quite useable in a variety of games. Including D&D.
People like me who don't care about uniques and rares and such will make out like bandits. Like I say, I have a few hundred MK figures, and I paid probably on average 30 cents (US) a piece for them. I've known others that paid far, far less.
I mean, who cares if you don't have the Hillary, Queen of the Mole people figure that sells for $30 on the reseller market. If you can get 50 decent looking orcs for $10, it's a great thing for most people.
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