Nimble Strike, Careful attack, Twin Strike

[Saeviomagy]

Nimble strike does not EVER need to be the primary way to cause damage, because it is a defensive power. You get to shift, attack AND move in a round (potentially shifting a second time). That's a big benefit.

Careful attack is a bit bad for rangers at present. Furthermore, boosting it all the way up to crazy levels (+8) doesn't actually help it much, nor does allowing it to add str(or dex) mod. Twin strike is just that strong.

 

[Gloombunny]

The problem is that Careful Attack is all about hitting an enemy reliably, and Twin Strike already does that quite well. Careful Attack doesn't just need a tweak, it needs to be replaced with something else entirely that isn't covering the same ground as Twin Strike, IMO.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The problem is that Careful Attack is all about hitting an enemy reliably, and Twin Strike already does that quite well. Careful Attack doesn't just need a tweak, it needs to be replaced with something else entirely that isn't covering the same ground as Twin Strike, IMO.

I'd have to agree entirely on that point. The only question is, what's appropriate?

It has to be appropriate to both melee and ranged combat.
It has to only deal damage to a single target and possibly move the ranger (to fit the striker role and the rangers specific interpretation of that)
It has to be better than twin strike in ~25% of situations OR deal equivalent damage.

 

[Zurai]

I still suggest letting it operate as a basic melee or ranged attack.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'd have to agree entirely on that point. The only question is, what's appropriate?

It has to be appropriate to both melee and ranged combat.
It has to only deal damage to a single target and possibly move the ranger (to fit the striker role and the rangers specific interpretation of that)
It has to be better than twin strike in ~25% of situations OR deal equivalent damage.

How about:

"You take careful aim and find the perfect strike to ruin your enemy's defenses. On a hit, deal W Damage and you grant Combat Advantage against your target to an ally of your choice until the end of your next turn"

Great for a Ranger -> Rogue one/two doubleteam!

 

[nittanytbone]

How about having it go against REF instead of AC? Would that make it too similar to the Rogue Power?

Or allow you to add your STR/DEX modifier as damage, unlike twin strike?

 

[Gladius Legis]

Or allow you to add your STR/DEX modifier as damage, unlike twin strike?

This would help a lot. Thing is, the DDXP version was +4 and you added your ability mod to damage.

Suffice it to say that WOTC overcompensated here.

 

[Rystil Arden]

How about having it go against REF instead of AC? Would that make it too similar to the Rogue Power?

Or allow you to add your STR/DEX modifier as damage, unlike twin strike?

Hitting Ref rather than AC is rarely better than +2. In fact, quite often it is not as good. At least at low levels in KotS, I've collected empirical evidence on the matter because my Cleric hits almost exclusively against Ref and the rest of the party mainly hits against AC, so I've gotten to see the AC and Ref of a bunch of critters (and someone also did an analysis that suggested similar results, that the average gap between AC and Ref was a little over 2 IIRC).

 

[Sashi]

I think it's a good point that [DEX vs AC 1(W)]x2 damage really is pretty close in terms of damage compared to DEX vs AC 1(W)+DEX damage once, especially considering that increasing DEX increases the attack bonus for both, but only one damage code changes.

Has anyone thought about "fixing" careful attack by giving it a flat damage boost? Like DEX+2 vs AC and damage 1W+2? It's not like you're going to have rangers with 12 dex gaming the system to boost their damage with careful attack ...

 

[On Puget Sound]

Or maybe something that riffs off of other ranger tropes. Traditional rangers had animal companions (nah, not now), keen senses and tracking (skills and utilities), and favored enemies (hunter's quarry). Perhaps something like:

REVEALING STRIKE
Your blow or arrow causes a bleeding wound. Your target will leave a trail, making it easy to track.
At-Will Martial Weapon
Standard action. Melee or ranged weapon.
Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon.
Target: One creature that is designated as your Hunter's Quarry.
Attack: Strength vs AC (melee) or Dexterity vs AC (ranged)
Hit: 1(W) + STR damage (melee) or 1(W) + DEX damage (ranged). Target takes ongoing damage equal to your WIS modifier and is -20 on Stealth checks (save ends both conditions).