No 5e threads for now, please

[Dannyalcatraz]

While the 3 tiered system has some definite appeal, I doubt Hasbro would try it, given the history of Portal vis a vis M:tG.

OTOH, I'm pretty sure I'd buy revised versions of 1-3.5 Eds, especially if they appeared in a nice, inexpensive, digest-sized format (portability = utility). That, to me, would have more value than those ludicrous, expensive fancy bound editions of the game books.

 

[rounser]

While the 3 tiered system has some definite appeal, I doubt Hasbro would try it, given the history of Portal vis a vis M:tG.

But D&D is not (or was not?) M:tG, and I understand that it's been done before successfully. I gather that the BECMI sets were a big success for TSR internationally, according to at least one former TSR staff member.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Its been done before, but not by Hasbro, and not many companies have had success with it besides TSR.

The risk of cannibalizing your market with your own products has gotten many companies in trouble. For instance, my beloved Apple had a problem over a stretch of a few years when they were releasing so many models that the computer you bought in January was supplanted by the new, identically priced model that came out 7 months later. Even devoted Mac lovers like myself had difficulty pulling the trigger on a purchase, so sales lagged horribly.

With 4+ versions of the game in the market at the same time, you'll split your market while increasing costs- you'll need developers for each line...unless you want 3PPs to get that share of the market again.

Plus, no matter how clearly you label your product line, you'll have at least a few people confused about what they're buying. This will lead to returns, and retailers hate dealing with confusing product lines with higher-than-normal returns/exchanges.

 

[rounser]

For instance, my beloved Apple had a problem over a stretch of a few years when they were releasing so many models that the computer you bought in January was supplanted by the new, identically priced model that came out 7 months later

Even Apple has it's iPod shuffles alongside it's other models as an entry to their line, though. Perhaps D&D needs an entry game that is not incomplete and unsupported, appearing as an obvious bait and switch for an upgrade to the fully supported game.

For whatever reason, it hasn't really had that since the red box, and as a result people detect an incomplete game and won't recommend it by word of mouth. (I think 4E itself is subject to this criticism, arguably, and it is an image problem that I suspect will be exacerbated as the pile of PHBs grows and intimidates newcomers...assuming the economy holds long enough to see the plan through.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Even Apple has it's iPod shuffles alongside it's other models as an entry to their line, though. Perhaps D&D needs an entry game that is not compromised as an obvious bait and switch for an upgrade.

Basic was similar to AD&D, and AD&D was a lot more like 2Ed. None of those was similar to 3.X, and 4Ed is as much a departure from 3.X as 3.X was to those that preceded it.

IOW, while Basic or AD&D could be seen as an entry level game- its not likely but its possible- re 2Ed, none of that would fly with 3.X or 4Ed.

No...what they'd need is some kind of quick-start rules, or perhaps a setting neutral adventure pack that includes pregens.

Heck...we're talking WotC. The pregen PCs could be even be released as a randomized collection, 6 to a pack. With uncommons & rares.

For whatever reason, it hasn't really had that since the red box, and as a result people detect an incomplete game and won't recommend it by word of mouth. (I think 4E itself is subject to this criticism, arguably.)

Well, I won't say you're wrong, but I never saw that as a problem- except with 4Ed- since I was perfectly willing and able to initiate the uninitiated myself.

With 4Ed, the perception of "incompletion" is largely due to the absence of several classes & races that had been in the game since the 1970s. While this in no way made the game incomplete- its perfectly possible to play D&D without Druids & gnomes, for instance- it meant that it was perceived as so by the installed market base...especially in comparison to the game it was supplanting.

For some, this was no problem, but for many (like myself), it was a huge deal. And those people are NOT going to recommend or run that "incomplete" game.

 

[rounser]

No...what they'd need is some kind of quick-start rules, or perhaps a setting neutral adventure pack that includes pregens.

They keep trying that. I see no-one recommending these incomplete and unsupported intro games, though, because they're obviously a bad deal when compared to "the real McCoy"...which you'll have to buy anyway, if you like them.

As a thought experiment, I'd assume that people won't buy an incomplete Beginners Monopoly that requires you to buy Monopoly after a game or three. They'll buy Monopoly or not at all. People are only so stupid, even if the product is provided with sincere intent. Even as a kid you'd feel gypped by a half-game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They keep trying that. I see no-one recommending these incomplete and unsupported intro games, though, because they're obviously a bad deal.

As a thought experiment, I'd assume that people won't buy an incomplete Beginners Monopoly that requires you to buy Monopoly after a game or three. They'll buy Monopoly or not at all. People are only so stupid. Even as a kid you'd feel gypped.

I agree- but RPGs are a lot more complex than boardgames, generally speaking.

Still, a lot of people bought the pre-Core 4Ed release stuff, which, AFAIK, didn't have much in the way of material that wasn't subsequently released in the Core.

Still, "quickstart" rules don't need to be a bad deal. As long as you have enough rules to cover the PCs supplied with the beginner adventures.

In some game systems, they're included with the game itself.

With others, you get a full-sized adventure to run.

 

[Hairfoot]

Perhaps D&D needs an entry game that is not incomplete and unsupported, appearing as an obvious bait and switch for an upgrade to the fully supported game.

I've always thought there should be a non-violent kid's edition of D&D to boost the market. The trolls and gnomes and pixies are all there, it just requires some creativity and full modules for parents and teachers to run.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

I've always thought there should be a non-violent kid's edition of D&D to boost the market. The trolls and gnomes and pixies are all there, it just requires some creativity and full modules for parents and teachers to run.

This sounds like a good idea... a Boxed Set with a three level adventure with a lot of skill challenge and a few combats against, let's say out-of-control constructs

You could name it "Dungeons and Dragons Presents: Adventure in the Wizard's Tower (for ages 6 and up!", or something like that...

Now that I think about it... ChattyDM had a few blog entries about some roleplaying experiments he did with his preschool kid... maybe we should review that possibility

 

[I'm A Banana]

With 4+ versions of the game in the market at the same time, you'll split your market while increasing costs- you'll need developers for each line...unless you want 3PPs to get that share of the market again.

IMO, here is what "OGL Turned Up To 11" and internet economies of scale will help a lot.

You've got thousands of people who produce great content for 1e, 2e, 3e, and 4e, all doing it effectively for free just to share with the community.

Put those rules in an official content, let the community weed out the good from the bad, have "pro developers" work on the best stuff, and allow it all to be packaged into your own customized rule book that is printed on demand.

You control even the third party information. 3PP's might make a cut of the sales (you can pay the individual authors every time their rules are included in a book that is published), but WotC controls the flow of it, and, of course, gets the bulk of it right up front.

3PP's work for WotC, effectively, unless they just make their own books for the market (which can work, too).