No armor penalty to reflex/touch-AC saves?

[Betote]

How could wearing plate mail gauntlets not hinder your lockpicking attempt? Or any other finely tuned activity like trying to balance on a narrow walkway?

Maximum Dex wasn't the same as check penalty. Wearing plate mail did hinder you in 3.x

I'll bet that in 4E armor will have a "Reflex Penalty" stat.

 

[Oldtimer]

I always thought the max. dex. applied to everywhere you used the Dex. modifier. Therefore, Reflex saves.
That's the way I play, anyway.

No, by the rules "Max Dex" for your armour only applies to AC. There's no Max Dex for Reflex Saves.

 

[Aage]

But obviously there should be.. Of corse, I would rather armour gave penalty on both AC and Reflex, and worked as damage reduction instead..

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

How could wearing plate mail gauntlets not hinder your lockpicking attempt? Or any other finely tuned activity like trying to balance on a narrow walkway?

I suppose this is good evidence that the Max Dex/Check Penalty system is too confusing for people.

 

[Wormwood]

I suppose this is good evidence that the Max Dex/Check Penalty system is too confusing for people.

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

Maximum Dex wasn't the same as check penalty. Wearing plate mail did hinder you in 3.x

Ah, yes. I was getting Max Dex and ACP mixed up.

Man, I'm already allowing my 3.x knowledge to wither away . . . come, 4e, come!

 

[Ranger REG]

How could wearing plate mail gauntlets not hinder your lockpicking attempt? Or any other finely tuned activity like trying to balance on a narrow walkway?

Isn't that what the Armor Check Penalty does against skills like Open Lock? Or do you want to double-penalize the wearer (combine both ACP and Max Dex Limit)?

If AC will be rolled into Reflex Defense (or if both will be separate stats with the same progression), then in the case of any attack -- including touch -- Max Dex should apply (without or without armor [equipment] bonus to Defense).

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Maximum Dex wasn't the same as check penalty. Wearing plate mail did hinder you in 3.x

I'll bet that in 4E armor will have a "Reflex Penalty" stat.

I really hope that armor provides some damage reduction or some other protective benefit besides AC. I can really see heavy armor becoming EVEN LESS worthwhile than it is under 3.5 unless they significantly enhance the protection it offers the individual.

 

[Ranger REG]

I really hope that armor provides some damage reduction or some other protective benefit besides AC. I can really see heavy armor becoming EVEN LESS worthwhile than it is under 3.5 unless they significantly enhance the protection it offers the individual.

Either they use the "Armor as DR" rules and formula from Unearthed Arcana or offer an armor feat that allows DR (for clumsy tanks).

 

[Emirikol]

I really hope that armor provides some damage reduction or some other protective benefit besides AC. I can really see heavy armor becoming EVEN LESS worthwhile than it is under 3.5 unless they significantly enhance the protection it offers the individual.

We found a neat way to do it in our games: Player may sacrifice 2 armor points (may be repaired) to completely avoid an attack.

On a related note, it does seem wierd that reflex isn't affected by armor...I'm sure the "players' lobby" would rise up if this isn't handled properly

Jay