No Dice <Nerd Rage>

[Mistwell]

Um, it's simple logic. Liars are dishonest, but being dishonest doesn't make you a liar. The tautology of dishonesty vs. being a liar is what it is. If I had meant WotC was a liar, I would have said explicitly.
I don't call it splitting hairs to dismiss the accusation that I called WotC a liar. I didn't, and any claims that I have are false. Now, if you are done shoving words down my throat, do you have anything else to add?

I am not shoving words down your throat, and now I am going to call you out on that claim. It's not OK that you keep making that claim (that people are putting words in your mouth) whenever you feel the pressure of your own words being questioned.

I was clearly, specifically repeating back what you said, and asking you what distinction you saw, and debating that distinction.

You said they were not truthful, in addition to calling them dishonest.

What did you mean by not truthful, if you didn't want anyone to infer you were calling the statements lies?

Isn't it fair for someone to assume you are calling the statements lies if you call them both dishonest and not truthful, given the distinction is so fine in this context that dictionaries don't really deal with those kinds of distinctions for claims about statements as lies?

People should be able to communicate with you sufficiently to move the debate forward. If you call some statements dishonest and not truthful, and someone thinks you are calling those statements lies, the distinction is so fine in that context it's unreasonable for you to get upset that someone is "putting words in your mouth".

In fact, given you made that accusation again to me, when I was definitely not putting words in your mouth, it seems like you are using that accusation as a tactic to avoid furthering the debate.

So, I think if you want the debate to go forward with you, it would be best if you stopped using that phrase "stop putting words in my mouth" unless someone is actually twisting your statements into something entirely different (as opposed to ever so slightly different in fairly meaningless ways). It makes you look like your crying wolf, if you constantly throw around that accusation without any real support for it.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Think about every new MTG card released. It has art. And to a lesser degree, art in their books. And art in their other products/offerings.
WotC isn't just about D&D.

Edit: It would be nice if the poster that claimed 300 could supply the documents.

Ask and ye shall recieve. The Linked In profile of WotC today lists 387 employees. This is not necessarily the total count, but is the number of people on Linked In listing WotC as their current employer, so the actual number could be higher, or possibly lower if every employee is on Linked In (unlikely) and some ex-employees have not removed WotC as their current position. Of that 387, 5% are listed as Freelance artists, so they are contractors rather than employees.

The profile can be viewed here

 

[Chrono22]

Yes, a person can be both dishonest and not truthful. Deliberately omitting facts or information because they would be met unfavorably is just that.

So, I think if you want the debate to go forward with you, it would be best if you stopped using that phrase "stop putting words in my mouth" unless someone is actually twisting your statements into something entirely different (as opposed to ever so slightly different in fairly meaningless ways).

Don't assume I mean anything other than what I say I mean, and there should be no confusion.
Accusing me of calling WotC a liar portrays me unfavorably, and is a lie. I don't stoop to character assassination to try to "win" an argument; you shouldn't either.

Ask and ye shall recieve. The Linked In profile of WotC today lists 387 employees. This is not necessarily the total count, but is the number of people on Linked In listing WotC as their current employer, so the actual number could be higher, or possibly lower if every employee is on Linked In (unlikely) and some ex-employees have not removed WotC as their current position. Of that 387, 5% are listed as Freelance artists, so they are contractors rather than employees.

Thanks. Just a quick question however: not all of the employees are categorized. Actually, only about 20% are. I wonder what the other 80% could be?? Oh, and it says 307, btw.

 

[Hussar]

Yes, a person can be both dishonest and not truthful. Deliberately omitting facts or information because they would be met unfavorably is just that.

Don't assume I mean anything other than what I say I mean, and there should be no confusion.
Accusing me of calling WotC a liar portrays me unfavorably, and is a lie. I don't stoop to character assassination to try to "win" an argument; you shouldn't either.


Thanks. Just a quick question however: not all of the employees are categorized. Actually, only about 20% are. I wonder what the other 80% could be?? Oh, and it says 307, btw.

OMG. Even if you're 100% right. 20% of 300 is still SIXTY full time employees. That's a far cry from the dozen or so you claimed earlier.

I can appreciate wanting accuracy, but, holy crap, when you actually get shown information that PROVES your statements are factually innaccurate, have the decency to accept gracefully.

 

[Chrono22]

I said two-dozen. Yeah, I was guessing. Hence, the question marks. Thanks for pointing that out for me, though, I wouldn't want to forget.

Not pointing fingers, but can we drop this? It's kind of petty, and largely irrelevant. WotC is a small publishing company, that much is true.
But if you'd like me to apologize to you, Hussar, I'm willing to. I apologize. *sheds a tear and gives Hussar a big hug*

 

[Mark CMG]

OMG. Even if you're 100% right. 20% of 300 is still SIXTY full time employees. That's a far cry from the dozen or so you claimed earlier.

They probably lay off that many every Christmas. Could a small company do that?

 

[Crothian]

WotC is a small publishing company, that much is true.

But they are not a publishing company, they are an RPG/Games company. No need to be comparing them with companies that do different things.

 

[Hussar]

I said two-dozen. Yeah, I was guessing. Hence, the question marks. Thanks for pointing that out for me, though, I wouldn't want to forget.

Not pointing fingers, but can we drop this? It's kind of petty, and largely irrelevant. WotC is a small publishing company, that much is true.
But if you'd like me to apologize to you, Hussar, I'm willing to. I apologize. *sheds a tear and gives Hussar a big hug*

Ok, let's get this straight.

You make a wild stab in the dark as to the size of a company.

Several people step up to tell you that your wild stab in the dark is totally wrong.

You stand by your wild stab in the dark and insist that others MUST prove that you are wrong.

You are then shown that you are wrong, yet still insist that your initial point, that the company is so small that all your other points must be valid, stands.

Yet, somehow, despite all this, it's everyone else's fault that your points are pretty much invalid and based on completely false premises? It's petty? Really? It's petty to point out that you are basing all of your arguments on invalid data?

I do not think that petty means what you think it means.

WOTC is neither small nor a publishing company. That means that your points that they should be perfectly happy to sell products for peanut profits is pretty much wrong. Three guys working out of their basement are happy with peanut profits. It costs large and medium sized companies more in accounting than to piss about with peanuts.

And that's what we're talking about here. Peanuts. A couple of thousand copies of OOP books, tops. For a company that regularly sells print books in the tens of thousands. Why would they bother?

You blow off any counter argument, despite proof, you blow off any counter interpretation that disagrees with your views. But, apparently others are putting words in your mouth. Pry open those jaws of life you have clamped around your opinion and perhaps people might be a tad more accepting of your point of view.

 

[Chrono22]

WotC is small, 300 employees notwithstanding. I never stood by my stab in the dark- others insisted on disproving it, for reasons I can't fathom. The number of people WotC employs was never the basis of any of my arguments or decisions.

But keep on trucking, Hussar. Keep tearing down arguments I'm not making, keep referring to actions I never took. Keep bringing my character into question, instead of challenging my ideas directly, I'm sure it's easier. If it makes you happy, you win. Here, I'm saying it, you win. Have 1 internet. You earned it.

 

[Mark CMG]

I do not think that petty means what you think it means.

No, he's got that part right in relation to those trying to *win* the thread.

WOTC is neither small nor a publishing company.

It's part of a huge corporation but it's still under five hundred employees and generally considered a small business in the USA.

For a company that regularly sells print books in the tens of thousands.

Regularly? Tens of thousands? Meaning at least twenty or thirty thousand or more? I'd be surprised if many or their titles beyond the first core books were printed in those sorts of quantities. Do you recall reading this somewhere? If true, not saying it isn't, I'd find that remarkable (and since you remarked on it, perhaps it is true ).